Why I can't love this game at the moment. The AI

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stockers, Apr 12, 2020.

  1. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I don't know from where people get this agressiveness from, but it kinds of makes me chuckle, especialy when I come back from other games and their fantastic fleshed out features. Unless people learn to express their issues at the right place in the right manner, I wouldn't count on any answer from the devs either. Sure, my boss doesn't put roses in my a$$ if I screw up something, but on the other hand he can f*ck off if he doesn't know how to communicate the issue in a proper way. Easy and simple. :)
     
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  2. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    What has become of the principle: the customer is king? Paid content is not fixed. Features don't work. Commitments are not kept. And no statements from those responsible? If that's ok for you, ok. :)
     
  3. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I work with hundreds of customers in my daily job. Trust me, if I have learned anything from those last ten years in a super market and especialy during the last couple of weeks while working part time next to University, it's that people have a completely wierd understanding of what "customer is king" actually means. It certainly doesn't give you the right to be an idiot or complete a$$hole - not implying you are one, but your tone is a bit agressive - and most customers have completely lost the sense and empathy going that far that they completely miss the fact that there are humans on the recieving end and not human capital. Let me tell you, most people even struggle with the simplest things, like good morning, good bye and thank you and at one point I just don't care and ignore those people. ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2020
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  4. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    You're definitely right. Last year at the Sim Expo, I personally spoke to Marcel about the GT3 problems. I have opened various topics with bugs. Here and via PM, as well as via Discord and also there via PM. Everything in a respectful tone as it should be. S397's dubious "business strategy" is more than questionable.
    It's all of no use, I let off some steam here because it absolutely annoys me as a customer.
    But for today I will withdraw.
    Nothing will change anyway.
     
  5. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Again, there is nothing dubious about their business strategy. It's just that you don't like their focus on MP+UI+graphics, something that they pretty openly discuss in their roadmaps every month. I am not in the dev nor in the tester team so I have not the insight to judge weather things got out of hand. I just compare the different products and the information from the dev teams and that's it. How it is questionable that a developer tells you that he will focus on AI after other priorities are managed, is actually far beond me. Everyone who is somewhat active in this forum and has followed the roadmaps should know this by now.

    Just let me add two little stories to put this all into perspective, especialy what you call dubious business:
    • recently a certain italian developer and the main coder of a certain product quit the development of this product, even if the product isn't anywhere near complete in terms of promised features and their quality, after he had sold his baby to a big publisher and the whole RD community reacts as if somone died
    • a certain other developer asks for ten bugs per month to be able to access a game where people get acces to tech tracks that are sold since 2013 and stays pretty silent in terms of development unless there is something new to release and sell
     
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  6. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    That's all well and good. Let's take the penultimate roadmap as an example. Or was that here in the forum? Christopher now assured us of weekly updates (!). There was talked of an offline championship for the UI. wasn't that a hint towards the offline "party"? More than 6 weeks have already passed .. it is indeed doubtful if not even making a small statement about the situation .. well ..
     
  7. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    there are more consumers than just you and AI racers though.
     
  8. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    You have noticed that the world is upside down haven't you? And before anyone jumps to the wierdest conclussions again and tells me that I am just seeking for excuses, I wouldn't be surprised if the focus shifted the last few weeks again. Six weeks is nothing, that should be clear by now. Six weeks ago I was just running my usual daily business and knew nothing of quarantines. And while it might just be possible that things can't be fixed as fast as we would like them to be fixed or implemented, it might be just that some parts of the team have run into personal issues. But that doesn't belong here and it would be pretty unprofessional to bring that to the public. I don't know in what situtation you are, but here where I live nothing is as before. Maybe Luminis needs help from the S397 guys to work on pressing medical IT issues, because that's another field where that company is active. Who knows ... :)
     
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  9. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    Exactly .. who knows. Let us agree not to agree. We're going to circle here. Nevertheless, I wish you a nice evening .
     
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  10. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    Uhh, obviously that's the way it is Sir. And what is your conclusion from this brief statement? Somehow I don't understand ..
    I only spoke for myself all the time. For nobody else.;)
     
  11. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    I've just finished a 13 race season in the ASR F1 1992 Mid with Frenkys HE mod.

    The AI have been very good with the exception of a couple of tracks modded for a league (FSR Magny Cours where they got stuck in the pits). They also didn't do enough laps on wet tyres b4 a pit stop for new tyres.
    Other than that they were fantastic.
    Attacking and defending from one another and me. Very realistic racing.
     
  12. Pales

    Pales Registered

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    yep, in terms of racing and awareness, they’re great. It’s just the other issues that ruin it..
     
  13. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    As I am only interested in offline, a greatly debugged AI (+ rules and what concerns the offline experience) as well as an AI closer to real drivers and with good racing strategies would be absolutely fantastic and would make me invest more in rF2.

    It would be fantastic if in 2020 offline and online drivers could get what they want, without these two types of players being constantly opposed by fools !
     
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  14. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    What AI settings did you use ?
    Force AI + aggressivity + AI limit.

    I use always 90% / 25% / 5%.
     
  15. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    TBH I wish AI was my only thing to be impatent and worried about :D
     
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  16. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    Average 100%. But the AI performance on different tracks from different track builders varies.
    I start at 100% but check it after giving the AI a long practice session, I check it in practice.
    The AI qualify a LOT faster than they practice, I can only guess they are practicing on full fuel. I practice and setup with 70 litres (most 60min races are 104-120 litres).
    So I found that for qualifying to make sense at all I need to be 1 sec a lap faster in practice than my team mate in the same car.
    This can result in dropping it as low as 96% (Adelaide) or as high as 104% (Hungary).
    I guess I could just add fuel to my car and compare with say 180 litres. It would mean another testing session though as gearing might end up too short and other things, so I tend to test on a mid level fuel.

    Aggression 25%

    AI Limit None. I'm not really sure what that setting does? Can you tell me?
     
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  17. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    I believe that the first AIs limit their performance when they are ahead, which allows them to avoid making too many mistakes and wearing out the tires too much.

    This is what I think real drivers do, if you are 20 seconds ahead of the second driver, it is not necessarily a good idea to be at your limit.

    I chose aggression 25% and AI limit 5% simply because these are the basic values of the game.

    My real level for 70% of S397 cars, without training and without any setups with the exception of driving aids SYSTEMATICALLY disabled is about 95%, which is the basic value of the game.

    I set the AI strength to 90% and I always start 26 th out of 30 to have fun overtaking all the AI during the 30 minutes of session.
     
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  18. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    I thought the ai limiter spreads the field in lap pace.
     
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  19. DaREALMastaD

    DaREALMastaD Registered

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    From what I have in my notes, it used to relate to the talent file for the racer. Can't remember who put this together but credit is not mine for the below...

    - MinRacingSkill: 0 - 100 (%)
    When the AI Limiter variable(from the playerfile) value is > 0.0, the AI drivers go through cycles of optimal driving and sub-optimal driving where their driving skill falls to MinRacingSkill * Speed. (Set the AI Limiter variable to 0.0, and the AIs will always drive to the best of their ability...every lap) So for example if you have a driver with Speed = 50, a AIRange in the AIWfile = 0.2), and MinRacingSkill = 90 This AI guy will usually drive around at (0.8 + 0.2 * 0.5) = 90% speed (really very very slow....but this is just an example), but will sometimes dip as low as (this speed * MinRacingSkill = (0.9* 0.9) = 81% while having a bad lap.....that is extremely low, but this is just an example with easy numbers.
     
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  20. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    Thanks for the input gents I'll do some more experimentation.
    It's an interesting conundrum trying to set AI performance in this HE (Historically Accurate) grid.
    My goal is to make myself really extract the maximum to match or beat my team mate. To me that seems realistic. So I tweak setup and practice often to catch up.
    I did a test race last night at Silverstone in the Benetton. AI at 104%
    My team mate (#Brundle or Schumacher?)
    was 0.3 behind in Qualifying.
    My quali result was further up the grid than expected and I wondered if I needed to increase AI speed more but in the race my team mate was putting me under pressure. So it seems race pace was spot on. One small error and he was through.
    I left the race but let it run out for full GP distance to see what happened.
    Wet periods hurt the AI as they pit too often for more wet tyres.
    So it gets back to the first interesting question as creating one wet segment of weather (13-14 mins of a 90 min gp) gives me a get out of jail card. Let's me recover from a mistake or pass a faster car on strategy.
    On a drying track my team mate was lapping a slower car and left the dry line at Maggots-Becketts and spun on the wet track.
    Interesting thing was I let the AI practice each track last season, all except Hakinnen as I used his Lotus all season. He only got say 20 mins in practice for this race. He got monstered by his team mate Jonny Herbert by 2 sec/lap!

    # Season 2 it's likely I will accept an offer from Benetton. Brundle and Schumacher tied on points in season 1. Whose seat will I take!
     
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