why did steam get a new MM with filters and we didn't?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MystaMagoo, Apr 22, 2016.

  1. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    If you read what I wrote not thought what I said.

    Steam MM got filters rF2 MM didn't.
    IF Steam wrote and implemented this feature then it's fine.
    IF ISI wrote and implemented this feature then it's wrong.

    Anything that steam does for itself in regards to rF2 is perfectly fine.
     
  2. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    Steam matchmaker and rF2 Steam matchmaker are very similar, in fact even the filters are same with one addition in rF2 launcher: "has same version". So it looks indeed to me like it's the Steam matchmaker just operating inside launcher window now. Also non-Steam servers can now be seen on Steam matchmaker, that wasn't the case before build 1080.
     
  3. WhiteShadow

    WhiteShadow Registered

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    I think it is wrong to say that Steam got MM filters. Steam matchmaker has more MM filters then rFactor2 launcher steam ver. has now and those filters has been there from day one when ISI did migrate rFactor2 to steam. I think also like Stonec says:"Steam matchmaker just operating inside launcher window now."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2016
  4. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    Why not wade in with an answer?
     
  5. Christopher Elliott

    Christopher Elliott Administrator Staff Member

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    If I had something to say I would :)
     
  6. mschreiner

    mschreiner Registered

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    Why not just switch to Steam then. It is the same product with more features. you can still do everything you do with the non-steam as well.....
     
  7. ErnieDaOage

    ErnieDaOage Registered

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    Because it should not be necessary every other company which provides their own launcher also on steam is able to get their stuff together without splitting their product into 2 different versions. And the ping there is a steam feature so probably the ingame mm will never get those extra filters since people already waiting for nearly 4 years to get something which should be there from the beginning. And i won't move to steam until its necessary to get game updates, i have steam since its early days and i am still not a big fan of it.
     
  8. Natureboy

    Natureboy Registered

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    Cars before 1990? Most race cars will have dog boxes and these are best shifted without clutch while lifting or blipping. Some cars that are mostly production based will use the production synchromesh box (designed in early 50s, while dog type were around long before then) but many times the internals are swapped for proper dog internals. With dog gears the clutch is only really needed when stopped or if a gear has been missed (this happens when dog faces meet or if driver is not concise with shifting). The electronics only take care of the lift and or blips (unless its a dual clutch system) to make things easier for the driver.

    Drivers are free to use the clutch if they like and it has some advantages/disadvantages depending on the car. For some cars reliability issues would require clutch use to give a slow but very smooth shift but we don't have much mechanical dammage occuring in the sim. Mechanical dammage would be nice, but without something preparation/budget wise that can be done to prevent it then its implementation is really quite pointless. Same thing really with mis-shifts, without a controller that bounces back to simulate the miss its more annoying than immersive.

    This link explains nicely how the dog box differs from a synchromesh box in street cars. http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/impp-1109-synchromesh-vs-dog-box/

    By the way, rev matching is not required and within reason has mostly nothing to do with completing a gear change for either type of gearbox, these are both constant mesh designs. The rev match is only important for what happens between engine and tires after the gear has been selected - you obviously want the engine speed to be as close as possible to what it needs to be after the shift so that tires are not locked or spun. Rev matching is taken care of by lift and blip and use of the clutch is not required to get it right. As far as a dog box is concerned, the initial part of a lift/blip serves the same function of unloading the gears as depressing the clutch does.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2016
  9. WhiteShadow

    WhiteShadow Registered

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    This It is off topic but In RF2 people is downshifting to 10-15,000rpm and suffer no engine or transmission damage and gain a lot of time.I do not think RF2 should allow you to flat shift as it does.
    I think Ernie is asking this:
     
  10. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    As a blanket statement that's incorrect. rF2 provides parameters you can use to punish drivers that do this when you are making a mod. Those parameters are quite general and lack flexibility, and maybe they're often not implemented in this way, but they're there.
     
  11. WhiteShadow

    WhiteShadow Registered

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    What is our point?
     
  12. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Well I don't know if we share a point, but I was just making it clear it's not necessarily a shortcoming on rF2's part. You already said it was offtopic. Probably spent enough posts on it now.
     
  13. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    You can punish the engine through the heat generated by overreving, however it lacks the machnical damage model from gearbox itself. Anyway this thread went OT.
     
  14. ErnieDaOage

    ErnieDaOage Registered

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    I am happy that i got immersed through a lot of racing games before 1997 and in this time there was no force feedback at all because the first force feedback wheel got invented in 97 by microsoft.

    Back on topic why are the non-steam rf2 players are still waiting for their server filters?
     
  15. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    So you do not know if the filters were implemented by ISI or by steam?
     
  16. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Filters were in Steam before ISI got there, no matter what game.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    This isn't about steam it's about ISI customers asking and waiting for at least 4yrs for filters or at least for passworded servers to be able to be hidden.
    How steam treat their customers is neither here nor there.

    If ISI implemented/fixed filters in MM FOR steam then it's an issue.

    Is your pic of steams MM?
     
  18. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    They did not, filters are same as in Steam matchmaker. Also if you add a new server to favourites list it's also displayed under Steam favourites, so it's a 1:1 copy basically with the interface part moved to launcher.

    The old MM is totally gone from Steam version, so it seems ISI is moving all functionality to Steam MM.
     
  19. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Yes this is steam server list. Same for most games on steam, for example Automobilista.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
  20. Natureboy

    Natureboy Registered

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    Sorry guys, I like these off topics. With this video, are you talking about the fact that the driver waits to downshift so the revs dont go too high? Flat shift normally refers to upshifts where the throttle is not released, to do this an ignition cut is required and does the same as lifting does but with less work for the driver.

    If using the clutch like this driver (in an assumed stock syncro box) or not using the clutch with a dog box you always need to wait to shift down at a speed where the engine will not be over revved. With a mechanical linkage to the gearbox for shifting, over revving the engine can always happen if the driver shifts too early. The only way to prevent it completely is to equip the gearbox with an actuator for shifting and software to disregard dammaging shifts.

    I totally agree that there should be more engine dammage occurring from bad downshifts, especially for really bad ones where the engine doesn't have much choice but blow up. I have zinged a few f3 and clio engines and felt guilty that it didn't blow. But to go with that you really also need a parts monitoring system because right now we go out in a brand new perfectly prepared car for every single session. Lots of high rpm downshifts will hurt engine power over time and won't necessarily lead to a blown engine.

    These high rpm downshifts can tend to give some time on track but I think mostly that is down to the driver concentrating on braking and not paying much attention to the shifts. I had a driver once who always performed perfectly timed downshifts, the data was incredible to show him hitting the same rpm on every shift. It also showed him loosing a tenth of a second in every braking zone, which despite being quicker in every corner than his teammate, always resulted in slower laptimes. Working with him and the setup did nothing to help braking until he was told a little bit of overrev was ok.

    Anyway, the way the driveline is simulated from a driving perspective I think is quite fine. To simulate the driving experience, the hardware you use should replicate real hardware and the game should respond to your inputs. Some mods impose a shift delay for some reason, and I thinks it's annoyingly undriveable because my shifter has already made its move, then I must wait for some silly delay. The non FFB wheel is not so bad if it has a decent centering spring, I have a T500 and as good as it is it's not really powerful enough to feel great FFB in important situations like over curbs and when fronts are going through grip/regrip (OSW when budget permits). I made my own brake pedal that I can stand on and it feels exactly like a non power assisted pedal with solid lines - would not do anything to simulate a long pedal though. But the brake pedal I think is possibly more important to have good correlation between how it feels and what happens in the game, brakes get you into the corner.

    Ok ok, sorry.
     

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