i understand all people are human and dont see things maybe this person didnt care about what he was bringing out for everyone to use who knows, but if i bring a conversion out and someone comes to me and says hey this needs to be fixed, im going to say ok ill fix it to make it better, i missed that thank you for pointing this out . this is not a perfect world but we can try and make things better.
les, you still missing the point. You are thinking in micro scale. try to scale out for global view. There are people (including you) which accept low quality content. But you don't know how many people dislike this. Thousands of potential members (and ex-members) left rf for iR just for better quality. It counts. 7 years ago rF was a single open platform sim. rF2 will live next to 2 other titles and also next to other ones which are not considered to be open. Do you think that today, with bad quality content, rf2 has the same chance to stay popular as rF1? I doubt. Additionaly today there are tools to do convertion in minutes and release it as is. It just makes that number of bad quality content will be growing. And yes, I apreciated your stand about fixing things. But as I said, you are not single one who made convertions. At the end, we are OK with convertsions, if provide quality.
This might be what you do but there are people who put forward the attitude that you have no right to point out flaws and poor workmanship with mods - they're not a small group either. It's not quite as bad as the 'if you can't do better' crowd but it's still a frustration. More importantly the typical attitude with a rushed conversion is simply not caring about the quality. Also, MaXyM is right, I know a good number of people who jumped ship from rFactor to iRacing primarily because of the weight of poor content produced for it. Tangentially related I even know exceptional modders who won't release templates because they don't want their work made to look worse by rushed reskins cropping up in screenshots on places like rFC.
i jumped to iracing when it came out, why because it was suppose to be more accurate, well i have never driven a real stock car or any road course car to know what is more accurate, so as far as tracks are concerned i have never driven on one of those either. what i do know is i came back to rf1 because of more tracks(low quality) included. and i still drive on the low quality tracks does it matter no what matters is i have fun.
No, not a definitive end of it. But rF 1 becomed an underrated product and rF 2 might be like that too, if community accept low quality content. And it happens now. How many times I saw on forums, when someone was pointing issues/bugs about some content and he got reply "don't like how it is? Then do better by yourself!". Come on... Yes, I'm talking about extremes but those do exist. Also, I'm very aware there are some good quality conversions (I mean, conversions done properly) but they are minority.
the last thing i am going to say about this is, if you dont like conversions dont download them, people will make up there minds if it is low quality or not, as a person who is working at converting tracks( doing my best to make them high quality) if they have flaws point them out, if the person who converted the track does not care that you point out flaws and does nothing to fix them then dont download content by them. not every person who converts tracks will say if you can do better then do it. if one conversion turns out to be very high quality and you never download it because its a conversion, then who is losing out on another good racing experience. I agree if a person who converts a track does not care how it looks and it is poor quality, it in a way makes that person look bad but not the game.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this as I've seen rFactor2 actually lose sales to this. It's a small sample, true, but it's evidence that at least a handful think that way. Myself, I was very put off by the prospect of trawling through the bulk of just plain poor conversions on rFC and haven't been there in a good long time now as a result.
Of course. Thank you for allowing that. But you again missed the point: what hurts the rfactor is existing bad quality content. Not using it or not.
I don't care if it's a conversion or scratch made stuff. I was refering to conversions because recently it became more popular to convert cars and tracks from other racing games (there are a lot more convertions done recently, than from scratch). But in general, it's about providing good quality content. Good convertions are OK (as long as they are legal of course).
I think that biggest problem is trying to put down beginner work, instead of showing beginner how he can make it better. Only way to get better is however do more and get constructive feedback and help, shouting your mod suck is not constructive, telling how to improve point which one finds being low quality would in long run make lot of good tracks and cars and also increase size of modding community, but it would require putting some effort to it by those who can, also mod building as community projects could be great path for getting those in who are currently put down by enormous amount of work and how only shiniest and prettiest are accepted. Whole conversion/scratch is just tip of the iceberg in my opinion and true issues lies otherplace. Now with rF2 you as part of community could have first place to get new modders helped into modding world, but are you up to this challenge or is it more 'fun' to bitch about quality and put down that not perfect guy than enjoy quality content after 1 year or so that is make that somebody you helped to learn? You means everyone there, I know that I'm trying my very best to develop help to newcomers, but how many others are willing to put that over their own projects, how many are willing to think future instead of present?
True but: 1. beginner in modding should know he is just begginer 2. he should compare results of his work to other products - I believe he is no blind as modder who did a track shown by KSzczech a few posts ago 3. he shouldn't release his product saying: hello, here is v1.0, and reacts on criticism in manner: "if don't like then don't use it" (see thread related to some F1 mod) 4. he shouldn't release some alpha stage for public 5. we cannot expect that any community member is developer in some kind. So don't expect constructive feedback from everyone. If you get 1 million of users, only maybe 0.5% has knowledge to come with feedback. Others will just moan and leave product. If those conditions are met, I have no problem. I'm ready to help anyone who ask for it. But I will definitely criticize all issues I will find in public release.
Watkins Glen 0.2 anyone? In the FR3.5 it's like driving over cobbles. Makes me laugh alot watching the tyres scream for mercy, lol.
I would advice the autor not to release a track that isn't finished. Don't release versions 0.2, 0.3 and so on. Release it when it's finished, it's not a frickin "who release first" contest.
+1 - great post. Conversions are no different to any other user generated content. You don't finish and release it until it is done. That is, tweaking and polishing - right up until you release it. Then tweak and polish more - then update it lol...calm down John.
What is the most basic things to do to get a rF1 track up to rF2 track standards? What is your checklist? I kinda need one because i have a unfinished rF1 track (lack trackside objects /pit building) that i want to get up to rF2 standards and finally release it.
Well, in my case i want to get both , the realistic gameplay and the great graphics! If one of both is missing rf2 wont have a great future, even if many people drive around. To be honest, if i first hear isi will stay on DX9 it was a serious shock for me. How can they? Even if there are some people playing with a old and slow engine, the majority got a faster one and would like to use it and also see it. If i drive in Monaco with the 60`s cars it look "ok" but seriously nothing more, its not state of the art. And just keep in mind that SMS with pCars is a PREALPHA and therefore nobody can Judge about that game right now. Just if they manage to get the realistic handling involved, i swear to anyone ISI will lose this run for sure. ISI`s engine is not cappable of such High end graphics. And remember SMS is giving you an Updatet version EACH month for Junior members (10€) and weekly builds for the other options. And in that Prealpha you get even MORE cars and More Tracks to drive, wich are also partly more finished then Isi`s beta tracks...Come on ISI!! And that all let me think that ISI shouldn`t call this a BETA cause its verry not in my eyes. They would go better with less bad posts and arguments if the call it also a Pre Alpha for sure. Im NOT A FANBOY of SMS, im just realistic!!! I will give ISI a chance to Show off what they can do, but seriously they should do it a bit more fast or they will loose to many members on the long run and thats what i dont want to see. I want it to be established like rf1 do some time ago! Greets Modmate
If your textures will be better than iRacing have and shaders will be better than CARS have than I will be satisfied I'm kidding of course. It's not so easy to do such a good textures and shaders, but it doesn't mean that we can not try to do that. But if your track in overall will be as good as ISI tracks (especially like Monaco and Spa) it will be very ok.
For me the problem here comes from the modding groups, 95% of them are only focused on creating cars/racing series, without giving a **** about tracks.
I see comments like finish work before releasing, that is surely one way to think, but what about different idea? Make base level and release WIP to get feedback and maybe some others to join into project, is there really any benefit for hiding and being secretive about project? For example with tracks, one guy could make grass areas, other textures, third could put up armcos. Few have time to make track alone or at same time table with one or two others, but what about if there would be 20 guys working on track, everyone making his own small part, when ever feels like it and has time for it. When anyone can submit his work we could even vote for best part which is to be taken in. Bit similar to opensource projects in that way. Of course there are different challenges, but it might offer nice stepping stone for newcomers too and maybe more detailed tracks. I at least believe such would work better than current way of doing things, eventually that is.
