Ok, yep, I had tried what CdnRacer said after having a look around so I didn't do an exhaustive test, just ran down a straight and changed while holding the throttle - but I suspect I hit the clutch as a reflex, hence the change. Had another go at it after strapping my left leg to the table and it did stay in gear. I was going to explain why I think there'll never be a 'perfect' system without a whole new shifter arrangement, but Tony's already done a good job of that But, while I think you need to be careful about how you handle different scenarios so you don't unduly penalise people for slightly bad shifts, I would say that it seems a bit strange to be able to move the shifter into a different gear and the game doesn't react even after a number of seconds. Moving the shifter in that case is an obvious 'mistake' so I'd probably prefer it to put you in neutral after half a second or so - that should be enough delay that it wouldn't interfere with any normal gear changes. At the same time though, the cars I tried it in didn't really react well to 'automatically' shifting into a lower gear as soon as you back off the throttle (since you tend to be shifting out of close to peak revs into a lower gear...), so in most cases I couldn't really see people taking advantage of this behaviour. Be interesting to see how rF2 handles it anyway, and what options there are for configuring different vehicles.
At present iRacing does the best in tranny/shift modeling..... until developers who make sims, start making hardware specifically for their software we won't have super realistic modeling.
I think the subject of this thread is really pointless and pretty much there to just cause arguments and flaming. Is there really a best sim? no, why? because different games will appeal to different people for different reasons. rFactor for example appeals solidly to modders, and its physics are not as bad as some of you make out to be. What the problem lies is not in the physics, but in the ability of the mod developers to create great physics, not all of them can. We have seen some mods on rFactor which have surpassed many boundaries of physic feel, yet we have countless of mods which just feel very bad physic wise. That isn't the game's fault, but rather the developers of those specific mods. iRacing is strictly online and strictly pay to play, neither of which I myself support but hey, over 20,000 players do and for them and their driving style needs, iRacing appeals to them. Others are appeals by other games such as Live for Speed, Netkar Pro, Race07, GTR 2, and others. At the end of the day, people are going to always argue about which is the best sim when in fact there is no clear best. All of them make fundamental flaws which makes them all even in the good and the bad sides. While some are good in some areas, others are good in other areas. Another thing that gets to me is sim-racer's who always complain about physics. 90% of you have never driven a race car and a number of you have never even driven a road car yet you argue that physics are not realistic. How do you know? You have absolutely no way in knowing what is realistic and what isn't. Some of you use video's to judge, that is wrong, why? Because in a video where you're judging the drivers lap, you have no way in knowing if the speed and the mistakes corrected by the driver are attributed to bad setup, driver mistake etc. You don't even get to see the cars 100% potential because the drivers can never push the car to that limit, they always have a stopping point to not push further. In a game, the reason we see mods being faster then in real life in some occasions its because modding in rFactor brings forth the real potential of the car and because we don't fear for our lives, we can push that extra bit and find the limits to the cars. At the end of the day, people will be appealed to one game or another through content and features only. Nothing more, nothing less. While the physics do play a vital role in this also, features and content makes a very big selling point for any game. At the end of the day we have to see games for what they are, with rFactor if you don't like the physics, you have the ability to change them to your liking, so how is that bad? For me, while my fav sim game is rFactor, and I am looking forward to rFactor 2, I enjoy each and every game for what they are and what they offer, only this way can I remain impartial and have a wider enjoyment in my gaming then what some of you seem to have. Maybe more people should just do that too.
"Another thing that gets to me is sim-racer's who always complain about physics. 90% of you have never driven a race car and a number of you have never even driven a road car yet you argue that physics are not realistic. How do you know?" In the case of iRacing, you can say that it's *impossible* that the cars handle realistically, and that the sim has been more about hype than anything else. This was obvious to me from the beginning. They released a sim which they insisted had cars that handled just like the real thing. This sim was supposed to be so accurate it could be used to train real race car drivers. The loudmouth fanboys screamed that all of this was true, and anyone who doubted it was a moron. Then, there's an update, and suddenly those same cars handled differently. WTF? Another update, and the cars handle differently again. Again and again this happens. New tire model....now what have you got? It's mindblowing that even a single person cannot see how ridiculous claims of realism have been from this company.
That's what I said a few pages ago!! lol. Rickard is a freaking troll!! and is trolling the ISI forums to spew his BS fanboyism. The FuhKin clown writes blogs about how great iR is then shows it on the forums to get a pat on the back, then comes in here to start ****.
Exactly!!! But these moron fanboys will argue till they're blue in the face that they've got the most realistic sim ever and what is really funny is that they don't have anything to back it up. No proof. As was said before about the scandanavian guy who actually drove the corvette in real life politely said on iR forums that the iR car was nothing like the real thing and he was flamed. Someone posted in the iR forums about Barichello participating in a league that uses STCC2 and that thread had ZERO replys. Hilarious.
Works pretty well, but could avoid what Cdn has described by just forcing you into neutral if you physically change gear without doing it properly (with the clutch), with a short delay in between. Still, I don't think it's a major issue in practice, would only be in certain cars and spots that you could 'be lazy' with it and avoid unsettling the car. Isn't there a 'grinding tranny' mod that behaves a bit more realistically? Must admit I never tried it. Well, actually that's exactly what the OP was about... that it's turned into a bit of a "mine's better than yours" thread is more indicative of how some people view these things, and an unfortunate thread title
I just don't get this whole fanboyism stuff. I mean sure we all enjoy or for the sake of the people who use the term "love" specific games that we spend more time on then any other game, but I don't get the point to arguing and having flame wars over one game or another. Games appeal to people for different reasons. I completely agree with David's post about iRacing, although they are not the only ones that do that. Look at how many games boast about being such a simulation, so realistic, its been happening since the early days. I think that gamers need to get away from this how realistic it is mentality and just enjoy games for what they are. We're all gamers, we're all passionate about racing, so does it really matter what form we're racing? If the game provides the features and the content we individually wish for, does it really matter that someone else prefer's another game? Its funny cause all this fanboyism happens with mod groups too. Why not enjoy all mods for what they are? why try to convert fans to another group? The fact of the matter is, whether it be a game or a mod, the devs of either/or work hard to try and provide something that is their vision of racing, some will like it, some won't, but I find it pointless and counter productive to the sim-racing community to have these sorts of fanboys who do nothing more then sit behind a monitor and belittle groups and developers and try to steer fans away from them simply because they prefer a different game. I'm glad that there are many like-minded people here who don't agree with this, but its sad that this community has acquired a lot of the deadbeats of society who have no life and nothing better to do then beach P you get the picture) and moan about every single little thing. For me, rFactor 2 is the game I am anticipating more. More so then Forza 4, more so then F1 2011. Why? because its moddable, we can create our own content in it, we can create our own physics that appeal not only to us but to our mod group's supporters. It allows us to expand the game to how we want it to be with content we and our supporters want. For me, that is what a game should be about. I can't wait for it!
This is going to go on all day.. This is my first experience in "sim" racing...... I had a much different experience then this guy. My experience was when this game was new back in like 1993 and I loved this game.. Phantom Photon was my racing name in every racing game thereafter. So F THIS GUY>> HARD DRIVIN' WAS THE BEST SIM.
Oh man that brings back memories. Memories of playing Street Rod and Street Rod 2. LMAO. Man, I used to spend hours on those games.
The point has been reiterated enough times as my pet hate in sim racing forums has been this constant putting down of other sims. There is a difference between being positive about a given product and looking for every opportunity to rubbish whatever someone else says. That isn't constructive debate that is banal contradiction for the sake of it. The thread title was to demonstrate how futile the sim wars on forums can be, some got it, like Lazza, whilst others chose to demonstrate it more practically...
I tend to switch off from the marketing claims. It is kind of like BMWs ultimate driving machine campaign. Ultimate until they release a better new model. Yet we understand it as progress and it is has a shelf life. The same is true in sim racing. We probably won't reach "perfection" in my lifetime, possibly never. Many titles make claims of most realistic ("as real as it gets"?) but it just comes with the territory and I prefer to make my own judgment.
Both approaches have their merits and pitfalls. Most real cars Flat out in second, shifter won't budge until you unload the transmission iRacing Flat out in second, shifter easily moves into third. Remains in second and shift is completed when the transmission is unloaded Grinding tranny mod Flat out in second, shifter easily moves into third. Grinding noise and the virtual shifter is in neutral. Driver has to reselect third with the transmission unloaded. The reality is that neither approach works likes real life, the shift should be baulked getting out of second so iRacing is more "correct" in this respect. However, it allows a preselection which is nothing like reality. The grinding tranny mod stops you preselecting but puts you in neutral which you couldn't physically do. In both cases the physical shifter has slotted into third but the software is in another gear or neutral. In the iRacing world the physical movement of the shifter to third is simulating preload. You have to get your head around moving the shifter into gear as the beginning the process rather than completing it. It can muck up the timing in your mind as the physical movement of the lever can take place well before lifting or clutching. With imagination you can hold the lever and view the initial movement as preload and software engagement as the gear finally slotting into place but it doesn't feel like a real gearbox. The grinding tranny mod has you reselecting a gear that your physical shifter has successfully engaged. Neither are perfect. The iRacing approach is definitely the one most open to abuse as it can let a driver preselect on a straight and change gear "automatically" as soon as they lift. Also for safety drivers will preselect up shifts and it gets further from feeling like a real box. Both can give a reasonable feel of operating a gearbox using "normal" timings but the hardware is the major limitation.
I admit, iRacing is way overrated, the laserscanned tracks feel rather flat and sterile, tires do not grain, collision detection is awful at times (car tangles together, instead of bouncing from eachother) and the game crashes at inconvenient times. I had enough of my subscription.
Well, I understand nothing's right without being able to limit the stick movement via software, but I personally think iRacing's approach is a bit too easy. If you force yourself to do it correctly you get most of the way there, though obviously without any guarantees everyone else is doing the same. I didn't realise you can shift up in the same manner (again, not a lot of time in testing... and didn't really occur to me lol), but downshifts I very quickly found myself left-foot braking into corners, moving the stick (which put me in neutral, since I was off-throttle), and giving the throttle a blip when I wanted to engage the lower gear. Seems to bypass any need to actually match the revs, and no clutch in sight. Managed to grab the GT mod (not sure I can see the reason for releasing a mod but having the link in a private forum... but that's a discussion for elsewhere) and have to say I think it's a better solution, because although it can't stop you moving the stick out of the current gear (obviously) it does punish you for doing it by putting you in neutral even if you're on the power, and it does make you get the downshift revs right before you move the stick into the lower gear (without the clutch) rather than allowing you to blip the throttle afterwards to engage. Unfortunately, of course, you can't force people to use it or to get all the settings correct so it works properly, but as far as the mechanics of it I like it a lot more. Hopefully rF2 has a similar system available for those who want it (enforcement is another issue entirely...), though with car-specific traits also defined (V8s with flat-shifting, for example) so that the 'hardcore' option works differently in line with what you're driving. Yeah, same troll who just posted in support of better AI... real iRacing freak You know it's a sim when it's got wheelspin Started with Grand Prix Circuit myself... got it in a twin-pack with TD2, and much preferred it. Not counting whatever the Atari 2600 'F1' game was called, of course.
