What's with the Brabham?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Minibull, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    Is there anyone that can help me get an idea as to the Brabham model in rF2? I posted once previously about this and the seemingly Frankenstein FR3.5, and didn't get much of a response. Was hoping the history buffs would inform me or ISI would shed some light on the car they modeled of. It says in the "more info" section they were only able to access one model BT20 to create their version.

    The thing that baffles me is the size of the front wheels and tyres. Front wheels look tiny, tyres look massive.
    I know the cars were probably all a mishmash of different pieces back in the day, each race was a totally different version of a car. It just doesn't match up at all well to any of the old books I have or the pics I can find on the net. I think I found a couple that look like they have noticeably bigger fronts, but they were nothing like the rF2 one.
    How does it affect the physics of the car they reproduced? The sidewall height difference for some pics I found is staggering.
    If someone interprets this to mean I am saying it is wrong, that is not what I mean. Just looking for some extra info or pics.
     
  2. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

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    ?
    Everything I looked at about the FR3.5 was spot on to Renault documentation.
     
  3. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    I remember something like the rev limit shown in game was 8,500 which was the rev limit the V6 Nissans used to have (compared to 9,500 now or something) yet the cars in game have the V8 sound. The sounds changed seemingly from V6's to V8's in one of the recent updates.
    Pretty sure the ones in game are also meant to be 2010 models. V6 with 8,500rpm limit. 2012 is when the V8 was brought in.

    Hence the Frankenstein name XD
     
  4. tjc

    tjc Member

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    Unfortunately I can`t help out with the actual model used for the Brabham but I`ve got to say I agree that it does look different from just about any other Brabham I`ve seen in books or online. The wheels and tyres do look very different from anything else I`ve seen. As youv`e said, the side walls look to be far too big when compared to pictures found online. The car shape in general looks to be far too big imo... the Brabham was quite a small, compact little car (going purely by pictures) and the model we have in sim seems to be quite large...

    If you look at pictures of Jack Brabham/Denny Hulme sitting in the car they look quite snug in there:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Where as if you look at our driver in car there seems to be lots of space around him. Too much space imo.

    [​IMG]

    The section in the Yellow circle is way too wide from what I`ve seen on the net etc...

    The car in general seems to be too big imo and the driver possibly too small, whatever it is, it doesn`t really look right and could do with ISI having a look at it...

    I`m sure they`ve done their homework and have more to go on than a few pictures on the net but something doesn`t look right with the BT20. It`s a great car to drive, I`ve always loved it but graphically it just looks too big...imo.
     
  5. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    What I have never understood about the BT20 (maybe this thread is explaining it) is why, when in other sims cars such as the Lotus 79 are instant legends and raced online a lot-yet the BT20 is released to no interest and very little online racing. If there have been any leagues using this car, I never heard about it.
     
  6. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Both Brabham and Hulme were considerably more 'chunky' than our driver model. :) The car is to scale, the driver probably isn't.

    With the tire, we went on specs given. They could be wrong, sure. However, if you look at this profile page, you see a contradiction of the side-on drawing versus the photo below it. So I think it's quite difficult to say for sure:
    http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/197/brabham-bt20
    The drawing shows tires on the front with less height than the rears, while the photo below of him rounding Tabac at Monaco, shows tires of equal height (even considering perspective). But that photo also doesn't show the small rims we have... Or the small rims in the drawing, either... lol
     
  7. Senna12

    Senna12 Registered

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    Hi,

    I like this car and think that it looks pretty close to the original bt20.

    View attachment 9379

    I've been working on a texture update for this car that's also a lotus49 mod
    and it looks wicked.

    regards,

    Sean
     
  8. pay2021

    pay2021 Registered

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    We discuss in another thread the inaccuracy of some blue prints (most of them), i thought you, the developer, get data from manufacturer instead of model using blue prints, or draws, even CAD data, being an "old" car you dont have CAD data in those times, but you can get the car and digitalized/scan today, of course, all of this is in my imagination.
     
  9. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    I think the body is right, and driver is small... but that front tires... just weird if you compare to any other version of the car.

    The closest one I found is this one:

    [​IMG]

    And even this real car has smaller front tires.
     
  10. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    We went through David Brabham to Ron (who was probably the ideal contact). No contact with Sir Jack about the car, just to see how to contact the Hulme family later on.

    Yep, you cannot trust online blueprints, for sure. I actually bought original blueprints for one car we have a license to... from eBay... lol Quite amazed nobody else wanted to buy what is essentially racing history.
     
  11. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Aren't those Goodyears? We don't have those fitted.
     
  12. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    Sure there is something odd with Brabham, quite possibly because the tires and driver. Also it seems that all the rF2 vintage formula cars have some tire/rim scaling issues.
     
  13. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    Just for some rF2 reference

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  14. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    You know what... Looking through photos I can see the car fitted with:
    Smaller rim, smaller tire. Larger rim, tire same height as rear. It seems we have the two mixed. Anybody agree??
     
  15. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    Yeah, the front tire rim is smaller than in rear (correct) while the front sidewall is higher than in rear (incorrect). Thats what makes it look funny.
     
  16. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    That kinda does to me, hope that I'm interpreting that correctly XD
     
  17. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    May the dev was doing it after a nice weekend and had have some funn on monday. The challenge was, who notice it first :)
     
  18. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    Well, I'm sure it's not because of the tiny driver or wrong tire dimensions...
    It drives great and very believable imo. So I'm not sure why it's not raced more often online.

    You did mention the Lotus 79, and I guess you're talking about iRacing (?), and I don't think it's raced online that much. I've not seen a single public server hosting the 79 since I renewed my subsciption a month ago. Neither is the new Lotus 49 hosted very much. Sure there are leagues, but iRacing is such a huge community with so many drivers compared to rF2 and I guess that's why they can find enough people who are interested in those specific cars. As you've probably noticed, there are not many online players in rF2, and the modern (easy to drive) cars like Megane is the most popular. It's the same with IR, that the easiest cars that provide good tight racing is the most popular. In rF2, with already so few players, not many are interested in the historic cars.

    I've seen many threads over at iRacing forums where people complain about the Lotus 49 too :p And if considering how many more players iRacing has, I don't think the Lotus 49 is much more popular than rF2's BT20.
     
  19. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    The Lotus 79 struggles there, and I personally think it's the lack of historic tracks...

    The very reason why wings were not invented sooner is because they didn't need them, and even when they did, the tracks were flowing turns, not many chicanes. Most tracks were about speed alone. The Lotus 79, even with the downforce, and 49 both are 'restricted' on modern tracks.

    Although with Kaemmer's thoroughbred, I would have thought making a 49 was a no-brainer for iRacing years ago. There really isn't the same passion about a single car example, that's why I've been trying to license others from 1966, that's why we made tracks, and that's why I'm hoping an open platform like rF2 allows modders to make historic stuff work... *I* want to race it.
     
  20. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Yeah, I think the rim should be larger and sidewall smaller (and it might be physically, I'll check) for one type of tire... But I also see a smaller front, with smaller rim in some shots... Though that looks like a Goodyear brand when like that, and we're on a Dunlop.
     

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