Ah, quite good one actually, even that I failed to get it at first There would be bit of planning needed to that idea of course still, but as I have seen with webcomics it can bring lot of good, even there is quite bit of work to get it all perfect, I think that it is worth the effort.
I don't think making mods for a racing game is actually as illegal as some in this thread seem to think it is. There have been recent court decisions that have ruled that video games are works of free expression protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution. This means they are similar to paintings and photographs which do not need licenses and can be sold for profit. Related to this, EA recently filed a lawsuit claiming that "some video game depictions of real-life names and symbols and products don't need a license." You can read more about this issue and lawsuit on this page. As for selling mods, I am all for it and will support those who choose to do it. I can say that my team would never do this though and we have had several offers. The viewpoint of Virtua_LM as a team is we are hobbiests and we want to remain so. If we were to sell our work then it would become a business and we do not want our hobby, something we do for fun, to become a business. To summarize, I can understand both points of view and I have nothing against either of them. One clarification - I would support those who sell mods but only if it is their own work. I am not interested in supporting those who rip-off stuff from others.
Thanks for that link, interesting read. Much of the implications are speculation though and it's US-specific. Worst of all, I don't think any modder who hasn't gotten rich by other means could afford to even just take the risk of selling an unlicensed mod and getting sued.
You cannot sell materials that may include a branded item without a license you how ever can sell fictitious materials but who wants to buy when they can get others for free!!!! Agree 100% GTFREAK!!!
Try and sell rfactor Mods and watch you fall into a Pit. Why dickheads are even discussing this is hilarious , but they go on LIST your MOD group who is now going to CHARGE for Mods for rFactor 2 here please. It will allow all class actions an easy List
Its about time somebody stops this ridiculous thread. Its simple.. If you make people pay for a mod, its not a mod anymore, but a commercial project. When something like this would become common practice, it would not take long before all hell broke lose. Some people just don't seem to have a clue how the real world works. Lets all shut up about money, so you can enjoy modding for what it is, and keep on enjoying it. Modding is a creative form of tolerated copyright breaches. Bring money in the equation and it would not take long before modding would die.
I don't know if you mod yourself or not. If you don't mod I can understand that money is in this regard not a topic for you. For us modders it is, because we have expenses and just ignoring it and muting the topic does not make them go away and appears ignorant. The question on debate here is, how much is a mod worth to everyone - worth enough to support Modders with money?
you just proved to me that A: - you are not a modder in the real sense. (merely someone who is part of a mod team) and B: - that you indeed have no clue about what is at stake here. It is beyond me how a Modding team as CTDP, who have been arround since day one, can not see this. I guess CTDP nowadays , is just not the same as it used to be. How can anyone ( mod teams I.G) who use copyright material, thirth party code, Branded logos , copyrighted track and event names, and the list goes on... an then claim they should be payed for expenses. This is plain ridiculous. It would be a free dinner for lawyers and Publishers to finaly stop modding as we know it. Try to mod a Ferrari or Porsche, and try to cash on it. You would rapidly see what happens. As a member of a Modding Team (RMT) it is insulting that people would try to turn a hobby that is allready on the blink of distiction in to an illigal revenue system. If modders want to get payed for their work, they chould start a company, and live by the rules of the real world. If they do not, thet will wreck the modding system for other teams, and sim racers alike. The main reason a mod can exist, without having to comply to copyricht and legal marketing rules is because they are FREE. Anyone with a small sense of realisme should realise that. ( Sorry for my blund answer, but its the only way to make a point )
WIX, is your view against donations or pay mods? Here is a cartoon, cartoonists accepts money as donations, his themes are for sure under copyright by Lucas. http://www.bluemilkspecial.com/ I think that we modders are in many ways similar position as that cartoonist.
Donations are not to be confused with payments. There is a difference between selling somthing, and receiving a donation. A donation is something someone gives you out of free will, and it could be for just about anything. Further more, a donation is to be conciddered private. So it cant generate a problem, because basically nobody knows about it.
This difference is important and one that I miss all to often in this discussion. In my posts I hardly go into payment as in selling mods. My posts all speak about voluntary donation payments as I see micro-donations a nice way of showing appreciation AND helping to support future projects. May I get my modder status back?
I think that then we have quite similar view to this. One thing I wonder is just how much licensing actually would cost? Maybe it can be possible to arrange deal where trademark owner would get share from each sale or something like that, I would imagine that they are willing to sell licenses to use their property as it is usually good marketing and making bit of income too. Asking price that would kill pay mod/game before it is born, is perhaps not desirable goal for many car maker, so maybe it is not horribly expensive after all? Anyway, I think that if someone is going to sell mod it should have legal side in perfect condition, I'm not against paying for mods, but I don't think ripping content or using someone else's property without licensing is something that indeed will fire back real quick.
In case of donation, you can (Sorry if i have been mistaken the Value versus Selling mods discussion )
I see some people mentioning the investment they make, in time and money, as something that should be compensated. That makes as much sense as asking the spectators at your local football field for money for your football shoes. Maybe the costs are not comparable but the situation is the same. In both cases you do something you enjoy that is also enjoyed by others, well maybe not me playing but toy get the point. I never received a penny playing football so I don't expect it from modding either.
I dont think the "spectator at the football match" can be compared to the modder and downloader at all, yes we all know it costs the modder time and money to provide the goods, so far no modder as far as I know has said they would charge for their work, surly the downloader feels a little guilty? taking a download link and ignoring the donation graphic? if there is one?, What would people do if they found a link to a new track or mod, but to get that link they had to pay a fee to get the download link, and the fee was simply for using the link, be it $1, thats nothing is it, but if you get 1000 downloads thats nice.
It really can be compared Acestumacher, but then I don't think you actually gave a reason why it couldn't be. If you don't do modding because you want to but because you want to make a profit from it... I think you'd be in the wrong place. Apart from the legal issues, the market is pretty small and your outlay is pretty big to produce a mod in the first place. You'd better go semi-professional and produce a standalone game like Reiza did or where the Race series ended up. The hope that the time, money and effort we put into modding could be compensated through selling mods or donations is naive. I feel it wasn't made clear enough in the discussion that a purchase for money isn't the only form of expressing that you value a mod. I value quite a few mods, but I wouldn't purchase-pay for a single one of them - on principle, not because I don't value their contribution or the mod. Yeah, 1000$ would be nice. Feel free to send them my way. Forcing everyone through that hoop is the wrong way though. So you pay 1$ for something you're interested in. It turns out crap. Or your league doesn't run it because it costs that buck to get. How many mods would you be able to afford per month? Leave it to donations from those who can and chose to show their appreciation in that manner. Btw, I'm looking to purchase a low-end digital SLR so I can take photos in good enough quality to turn them into textures for my tracks. After Dahie mentioned that many modders didn't even such options, I added a paypal donate and flattr button to my website (address is in my profile). So if you'd like to help me buy that camera, go ahead and put your money where your mouth is.
