What we "DON'T" want Studio 397 to do

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jerrymcc, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    rF2 can't be a hostage of lifetime owners, it is under a new ownership and new directions are needed. If you are going to make 3k or 5k people mad to potentially sell 100k+ more copies and bring more people online go ahead and take my money.
     
  2. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    In their haste of being mad and offended while feeling they are being mistreated or on the verge of such a thing, seamingly a hype these days, people seem to forget what a lifetime subscription actually means. If I recall correctly, it simply means you have lifetime, as long as the service is supported, access to the online functionality of rFactor 2. That is all, content has nothing to with having or not having a lifetime subscription for online access.
     
  3. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    If Studio 397 wants to make rF2 a very active game then it is mandatory to get rid of the stupid subscription system, putting barriers to players works against your own interest, considering that sim market is so small. The only way to keep this kind of subscription system is if they work on it and add something really valuable.
     
  4. expdom

    expdom Registered

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  5. Gonzas

    Gonzas Registered

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    other "forza" or "console game makers" did their best with visuals, and maybe they are not talented enough for making better simulation.

    im pretty sure ISI had enough talent to improve visuals to get the "best-round-finished-all-in-one-full-simulator-refoooking-awesome" we all are still waiting for.


    sadly talent and resources are not enough, motivation, effort and time is needed too.


    the "base-talibanese-average-rF2-supporter" was happy with the "less visuals=more computing pòwer for physics" that makes ISI to be happy, lazy , unmotivated and bla bla ...move to non rF3 because this is great.
     
  6. Marcel Offermans

    Marcel Offermans Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks everybody for providing feedback on things you want and don't want us to do. Such input is always valuable. Just to clarify, we have no intentions of "dumbing down" rFactor 2 in any way. We got to where we are now by having a very advanced and realistic physics model, and we want to build on that, not change it. As far as our roadmap is concerned, we intend to provide the community with monthly updates. One of the things that is debated in this thread, the on-line subscription vs paid DLC is something we are definitely looking at. More on that later!
     
  7. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    Good points and by far the best post in here!
    On most of that I would agree.
    I have also the opinion that the yearly fee must fall or turn to something else.
    As already stated, most people wont feel hurt/offended by that, as they already got something for the lifetime-subscription! Not?
     
  8. gkz

    gkz Registered

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    It is simple in todays world. Learn from the best copy them and make ur product even better. Iracing and ac are the best atm i think ac make a good move with there dlc concept to give ppl a lot of content and get money out of it on a fair base. Iracing has the best multiplayer and even if i don t like the physics as much u have no choice if u want competition on multiplayer iracing is the only way. If u see the user base of iracing and how much money they make how can u say " don t make iRacing style subscription to race online " it as a reason why they are so big..... And i don t see any problem to make a iracing based multiplayer game and normal dedicated server like we have now on rf 2. Why not having both and make more money ? For the ppl who don t want a license multiplayer would nothing change. AC did everything right with there dlc system and ingame apps so u have to copy both ac/iracing to make a better sim and get money in return to develop it and give AC/iracing or other user a reason to buy rfactor 2,dlc,etc. most ppl who are against dlcs and other systems are the reason why rf2 is there where it is. Because these guys are maybe happy with it but that is only a small amount of ppl in the simracingcommunity
     
  9. jerrymcc

    jerrymcc Registered

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    Thanks, Marcel

    This kind of response is one thing I was hoping this topic would provide ... assurance from you that this won't turn rF2 into an "arcade" game just to increase sales, and some feedback from diehard rF2 fans that realism is the priority.

    I, for one, am feeling much better about the direction you are planning. Looking forward to the next steps.
     
  10. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Hey Marcel. Have you considered doing video blogs on what is being worked on etc? Sth that Space Engineers guys started doing some time ago and people find it very user-friendly and informative way of communicating with userbase. iRacing is also doing something similar from time to time.

    However if not possible I would welcome monthly roadmap that provides decent amount of info on what is the progress on subjects that were announced previously. My example:
    "In newest November roadmap update we will talk about upcoming advancements on sounds and drivetrain model. As you know it will introduce bla bla bla, so that you won't be able to drive like a maniac with no regard on your transmission, clutch etc bla bla. Newest take on sounds will provide much more realistic sound environment. Sound effects like reverb from the walls, turbo hiss, bottoming out (sparks for some cars that have steel rails/plates to protect certain underbody parts will be introduced in next update) etc will work way better but also if you have 5.1 sound system on your rig or surround headset you will be able to hear all the cars around you much better so you will be able to pin point their position easier. We are also working on bugfixing many issues like xyz, cxa. Update on cars like Speed 8, new formula 1 car and tracks bla bla are now in testing and only F1 car waits for some improvements to ERS which should be done for our last build of the year. In next roadmap update we will talk about DX11 and VR which are hopefully coming in Q1. Here is some teaser pictures of new content that is coming and some new tech/features that are being developed right now. But more on them in the next dev blog update!"
     
  11. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    Like your example Ronnie, sounds like we share frequency here. ;)
    But implementation all this may take a good while. :)

    Good to see Marcel decided to contibute here also.
     
  12. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    I paid a lifetime license , This obviously can not be taken away for hosting & online

    Happy to pay for quality DLC
    ( I personally would like laser scanner tracks, there's already lots of quality cars mainly from Isi)

    +Happy to pay a one off fee for the upgrade to "rfactor 2 plus" which is of course the
    new dx11 & VR version , this could have easily been called rf3 then everyone would have to pay all over again

    Any special official servers if it were ran like Iracing I'd consider paying for this no probs. ( cancel Iracing ) but a series must not force partisans the to switch cars

    Some will moan but it's fair + encourages further development
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2016
  13. T1specialist

    T1specialist Registered

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    Not everyone bought the lifetime package in 2012. Someone could have bought it yesterday. It is very tricky to assign value to how much different people have gotten from it.

    That being said I think replacing the online access subscription with something else (as in make online available to everyone) sounds to me kinda good solution. It gives people something for their money who have lifetime packages or ongoing subs. But it also costs some money to develop. Someone suggested earlier that isi/397 pay back some of the unused lifetime subs which I think is horrible idea. Sure you could pay that in DLCs too and treat it as season pass. But where is the long term goal there? Going this route would also mean you'd probably need to remove the lifetime option from the steam store.

    But anyways in both cases you are looking at a cost. Whether to pay it back to people or pay to develop something. I think the latter is better option because while it costs some money to make it can also bring in money. As long as you choose the right things to put into it it can be a desirable thing. And you can also keep selling the lifetime packages. You can even make it so that people can buy those subs for other people. Someone for example makes a mod you like so you can give them a 1 year premium sub. Maybe even sell 6 month subs too? You could even throw a 20% discount for premium members for all DLCs.

    As for other revenue streams how about licensing rf2 engine for other developers? With dx11 it would be pretty good option.
     
  14. David Wright

    David Wright Registered

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    I think in the RD interview they specifically ruled this out.
     
  15. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    In my opinion they need to do a complete overhaul of rF2 experience, let me be more clear:

    - Remove your previous LICENSED content from workshop, add them as FREE DLC (see below)

    - Take your old rF1 car models, the FICTIONAL ones, give them an update on both graphical and phisyc side like this:

    View attachment 20849
    Vayline Rhez (2006 model) update int/ext car meshes, physics based on Mini or similar cars specs

    View attachment 20850
    Vayline Venom update int/ext car meshes until it looks similar to a WTCC car (citroen?), physics based on WTCC specs

    View attachment 20851
    Kody Raizor update int/ext car meshes, physics based on 4WD rally car (corolla?)

    View attachment 20852
    Kody ZR update int/ext car meshes, physics based on drift car (toyota supra?), I will suggest a name change too, call it Ronin ZR (ronin = samurai = japan = drift car)

    View attachment 20853
    Hammer update int/ext car meshes, physics based on muscle cars, add the Dissenter as a late model of the same manufacturer (new manufacturer name needed)

    View attachment 20854
    H6Howston update int/ext car meshes, physic based on GT3/GT4 specs (aston?), add the rF2 Howston as late models of the same manufacturer

    Trainer, RF3, Formula ISI: update int/ext car meshes, rework physics to rF2 standards

    Esperante, Esperante GTS, Esperante GT2, Esperante GTR1: update int/ext, rework physics to rF2 standards, add them as free PANOZ DLC

    Release all the car listed here (except the Panoz models) as base content for RF2 and make them accesible to modders as reference base for modding.

    - FICTIONAL tracks as base content, can be used for the trainig school

    - Actual LICENSED tracks as free dlc

    - Life time subscription shold be converted in lifetime dlc season pass

    - Complete the missing features like working gearbox, damage, rain, etc etc (no need to list them all, check the forum for a full list)

    - Optimized new game engine, multi threading engine, shadows no more loaded on cpu move them on gpu, multiple light sources, etc etc...

    @marrs don't kill me lol
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2016
  16. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    .. this line gets me every time.. rf2 just like rf1 is an online sim ,if you wanted it for life you brought lifetime , if you didnt want online you could opt out for less $$ or if you wanted to test the waters you could buy a years worth. pretty fricken simple.
     
  17. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    "Modification of Terms of Use

    ISI reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to modify or replace any of the Terms of Use, or change, suspend, or discontinue the Service (including without limitation, the availability of any feature, database, or content) at any time by posting a notice on the ISI or rFactor websites or Service or by sending you an email. ISI may also impose limits on certain features and services or restrict your access to parts or all of the Service without notice or liability. It is your responsibility to check the Terms of Use periodically for changes. Your continued use of the Service following the posting of any changes to the Terms of Use constitutes acceptance of those changes."

    Legally I think they can do what they want. Morally - that's another story.
     
  18. David Wright

    David Wright Registered

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    The thread is supposed to be about what we don't want Studio 397 to do, but as it happens what you suggest they should do is exactly what I suggest they don't do.

    I appreciate there are some fans of unlicensed content but I really don't remember these cars being popular in rFactor. And if you look at the best selling sims the thing they have in common is licensed content that people want to drive.
     
  19. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Does Steam even support a concept called "free DLC", I haven't seen any Steam game offering such, so I don't think it exists. At least in Assetto Corsa, all free DLC content they released is part of the main game. Besides, after all work ISI did to get the Steam workshop integration working, it would be moronic to move content away from there.
     
  20. pitkin

    pitkin Registered

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    I never said it was the only thing stopping people modding. The tyre model is an often quoted obstacle to modding. Surely removing that reputation by offering an easier option will go some way to giving the game some traction again on the modding scene.

    I'm not interested in online racing, so the situation you described with guys flying by you all locked up doesn't affect me. RF2 offers more improvements that just the tyre model over rF1. AI is a big one, flawed though it is.

    What are the reasons in your opinion that modding never really took off? I'm genuinely interested, as I love rF2, but AC seems to have attracted more interest and I don't know why. (I own both BTW but barely play AC)
     

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