What`s the problem with the GT cars?

Discussion in 'ISI cars and tracks' started by vitor costa, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. rer8

    rer8 Registered

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    View attachment 9201

    I almost never start with a set up in a sim car as delivered. As Drill Instructor Arno said, you remember him from GPL don't you, it starts with the foundation, and the foundation for a car is the suspension.

    I have attached 3 GT (GT1,2,3) car setups and an FIA F2 setup (extra), to give an idea about what I do before taking the car on the track for the first time. Each of these setups are drivable for me... perhaps not the fastest, but reasonably stable...

    Stiff is ok on generally smooth (modern) tracks, and something softer is required on the pre '70's tracks... may also need to increase the ride height on the pre '70's tracks. Lastly I find the tire pressures are much too high, and cambers need tweaking for tire temps, and I generally increase the castor to the highest setting that the car and track will allow.

    I forgot to say, I really enjoy driving all of the GT, and open wheel cars under this title.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2013
  2. Panigale

    Panigale Banned

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    Slow in - fast out. The C6R will wear through tires very quick if you overdrive it into corners. It's a technique that I've worked on and have gotten much better at but that isn't the whole story here. I don't think it is simply the people complaining are bad drivers.

    Corner entry on the GTs are somewhat vague which requires listening for tire noise to provide usable info on proper grip limits. i.e. I listen for tire noise (others have said this too) to find that limit and stay just below that. I say proper because you can go beyond this limit a bit and retain control but it burns the tires up. I've never had a problem with spinning the C6R (smooth is fast) but it is very easy to overdrive it into corners. It nets a (short term) gain in lap times which I'm not sure is accurate either.

    In contrast, the open wheelers are 100% by feel, the FR35 and F2 are just fantastic. (Can't say this enough, rF2 owns this space.) I'm not listening for tire noise, and I can't gain a speed advantage by over driving them. Any slip up or quick correction is a penalty in time. I think this is what people are getting at. The limit on the GTs don't seem as natural or predictive as the open wheelers, could be very accurate but seems odd nonetheless.
     
  3. rer8

    rer8 Registered

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    I certainly agree with you Panigale. Slow in - fast out is a must... I try not to smoke the tires, ever, and thus I am breaking as hard as possible and perhaps a bit earlier than many. I try to be on the brakes until near the apex, and then back into the throttle as early as the car will take the power. Over steer is typically the battle I must fight to win approaching the apex, and I correct for it with softer rear springs, and reduced front down force in cars that allow for down force adjustments. I try to be on the brakes, or on the throttle... all of the time. This is much easier said than done.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2013
  4. vitor costa

    vitor costa Registered

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    Thks All for The
    help. I Will give a try later. I must say i agree with Panigale`s last paragraph.

    Enviado via Asus HD7 através de Tapatalk 4
     
  5. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I haven't driven rf2 a few months but it's physics offer much more control, especially regarding oversteer, than RFactor 1 based sims.

    Videos I've seen of the Camaro and current vette show that is EXTREMELY driveable. Once you are close to straight you can give it full throttle pretty quickly, smoothly but fairly quickly.

    Try not to drive at 10 10ths in every exit if every turn like it's a championship deciding season finale qualifying lap.

    Remember that in real life you feel a surge of g-force, you feel the power, you feel the rear end squat, even at just 25%, 50%, %75 throttle, where as in sims it seems to be more a mental picture of "if I'm not at full throttle then I'm barely on it and not accelerating much".

    Also the tracks without rubbering can be unrealistically "track gets used 1 weekend a year" type of un-rubbered and dusty. So get them rubbered with 20 a.I. accelerated for like 3 hours in game time and save the track rubber.

    And of course get a stable forgiving, possibly more ubdersteery setup. Soften the rear bump so as to really get the rear squatting down when adding power.

    It's hard to know wether you should do wings, dampers (shock absorbers), springs, anti-roll bars, diff, brake balance, etc It all depends what kind of oversteer you ate getting, how are you getting the oversteer, what are you doing and what is the car doing before you get the oversteer and as you get the oversteer, because all those different set-up options can all help with oversteer but in totally different areas and amounts depending on how you are driving the car and in what way you are provoking the oversteer.
     
  6. pemigris

    pemigris Registered

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    +1
    I wanted to say exact the same.
    @vitor costa Try Skip Barber and if you have time additionally read this:
    - https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B004NNUXZ2/ref=kinw_myk_ro_title
    and this:
    - http://www.amazon.de/Going-Faster-M...8&qid=1376041767&sr=1-1&keywords=going+faster
    (you have all you need in our sim, Skip Barber + Sebring test track)

    I know, I repeat myself here ( as I posted it already), but the first book describe exactly your kind of complaining about the car's behavior:

    From my point of view, the basic setups which are provided with the cars, are very well balanced and the cars very neutral.
    @Tim Thank you for them. In other sims such default setups were to defensive.

    Best

    Michael
     
  7. Ricknau

    Ricknau Registered

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    Let me drive the first nail.

    http://www.alms.com/standings/manufacturer

    http://www.alms.com/manufacturers/chevrolet

    "Corvette Racing program has given Chevrolet 73 wins and eight consecutive manufacturer championships (2001-08) in the American Le Mans Series."

    That is vs BMW, SRT, Ferrari, and Porsche. Yeah, maybe some day the Americans will get it right.
     
  8. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I cannot agree on this in general. Nissan 370 comes with all rebounds and bumps to the same value. This is objectively wrong according to all setup guides I have read. Bumps should be softer thhan rebounds and rear softer than forward.

    Default setup is undrivable in this case IMO.

    Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk 2
     
  9. JGraf

    JGraf Registered

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    the damper number you see in the garage setup by default is a simplified setting, not the actual rate.
    see player.PLR [Game Options]:
    Code:
    Damper Units="0" // Display dampers  (shocks) in garage as: 0 = setting (e.g. 1-20), 1 = rate (e.g.  1000-9000 N/m/s)
    if you change this plr value to "1" you will see that the default setup damper rates are not equal as you assumed.
     
  10. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    By default, they are usually expressed as "setting" positions, clicks... When you buy an adjustable damper, you won't see "rates" markers on it:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. JGraf

    JGraf Registered

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    the point being made is, the same number of clicks compression and rebound (in-game 370z dampers by default 6/6) doesn't mean they are both using equal rates as it appears, one way to know the actual balance is by selecting the units display option in the plr to view the offset.
    real shocks provide detailed information of what rate each setting/click represents.
     
  12. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    You were right guys! These are the values provided in the hdv file.

    SlowBumpRange=(7600, 375, 11)
    SlowBumpSetting=5
    FastBumpRange=(2600, 110, 11)
    FastBumpSetting=5
    SlowReboundRange=(8500, 450, 11)
    SlowReboundSetting=5
    FastReboundRange=(2800, 142.5, 11)
    FastReboundSetting=5

    It would be nicer, I would say, if real values appeared. Putting non related number with physics can be misleading. For example it can be seen that fast dampers are much softer than slow ones and that is impossible to mesh up when doing a setup. But, in the same way, bumps should be softer than rebounds and with the settings it could be tuned up oppositely since the values are quite close. I will give it another try tryinh to improve my setup knowing which the values are. Thanks for the help.

    One way to know the actual balance is by selecting the units display option in the plr to view the offset. Real shocks provide detailed information of what rate each setting/click represents.

    Which parameter is it? edited: Bumper units
     
  13. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    When it comes to setups it can be helpful to look at the HDV because every mod is a little different.
     
  14. buzard

    buzard Registered

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    The impression I have is that the GT's are more in line with the FIA GT series and the tires used there are not full race slicks like you get on a formula car. This carries to the chassis that has restrictions on modifications allowed from the production cars and again not an unlimited silhouette type cars. There also limits on what can be adjusted with a setup. These are more modified stock than full race.

    Or at least that is the impression I get! Your mileage may vary!
     
  15. petersmith

    petersmith Registered

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    Hey, I think I know what are you talking about. I've been wondering, how on earth am I so lame? Than I've figured out what caused the problem.
    I have only a 200 degree steering wheel, so it's much less than than in real life, or other wheels.

    You should change the steering lock of the car. In the Corvette it's 25:1 by default, but it's much easier to drive with around 15. Now, it feels like heaven whenever I brake, turn or accelerate.

    Hope this helps. Cheers
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2013
  16. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    I have driven the Nissan GTR a bit (some 300 laps total) and I feel the feeling I get from the car is very soft, and there's not sufficient grip. It doesn't seem to have much slip angle, I don't know the cornering Gs on this thing in real life, of course, but it just feel like there's so more tethering and nursing with the GT cars than actual pushing. I get little confidence on 2nd-3rd gear corners with it.
     
  17. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    I think it's great that the default setups are 100% real, but the physics engine and my socks don't give me all information I need, so that doesn't really work. I like to bump up the FFB resistance, raise the rear and soften the springs a bit. I love that Corvette. It's a bit twitchy, but it's predictable enough, much better than iRacing, for example.

    Another thing I like to keep in mind is to speed up gradually lap after lap while the track rubbers in and the tires heat up. Good luck!
     

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