What`s the problem with the GT cars?

Discussion in 'ISI cars and tracks' started by vitor costa, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. vitor costa

    vitor costa Registered

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    People, what I`m going to write is just my opinion and from some other few guys I race for years. It means what it means but it`s my opinion.

    I´m a experienced sim driver and I drive almost anything in 8 years now (Race Series, GTR2, rFactor, netKar, AC Tech Preview, pCars). The one which I don`t drive is iRacing only.

    The thing is I love mostely GT cars but I can`t love them here. How is it possible to drive a car that spins at 60km when I´m with all the necessary precautions? I`m refering to the default setup of course, I only mess with bias and brake pression. How is it fun if we`re only struggling to keep the car in the track most of the time even with a defensive drive and tremendous precaucion with the brake and throttle? Most of the time is like having ice on the track and the tyres just go with zero grip until the rear starts to be in front.
    I can`t really understand this. Maybe with a tunned setup would be more fun but is it the way everyone wants the sim to go? Not everyone has expertize (me included) or many time to be laping 200 laps until getting a good setup.

    I can pick the Meganes, the Clios, the Formula Two and get into the track and have fun. If we abuse we pay the price but most of the time I can drive and I can feel the limits and explore them. With the GT cars (nissan, camaro, corvette) I´m only dealing in trying to keep the car on track and it`s always a paintful experience.

    I`ve always tried to bring people from my community to this game but it`s a hard job. Most of them are GT funs and even with the demo they only have Corvette and the general opinion is that is driving on ice.

    The tyre grip on curves is almost non existing in this cars and they`re not fun to drive. I know this is a sim but there are others too. Why people are expecting AC anxiously or testing pCars and don`t give a chance to rFactor2 if it has the best ffb I`ve ever saw?

    Repeting myself this is my opinion only and I´m trying to be construtive only.

    Cheers.
     
  2. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    "Because loose is realistic"
     
  3. gpfan

    gpfan Registered

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    You must be joking!!!

    Vitor no need to expose your feelings, no one will answer correctly to your questions, i have the same opinion as you GT´S in RF2 are painful and no fun at all, completely surrealistic, no fun at all even with rubberized track, setups etc..... Something is wrong, some says loose is realistic some says no, you will end with no consensus at all!!!!
     
  4. NWDogg

    NWDogg Registered

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    I don't know if it's realistic or not. I've never driven a GT car around any of these tracks (or at all for that matter), but, I have resorted to referring to the Camaro as 'twinkle-toes' since she just spins around like a ballerina anytime I attempt to drive it. That's with a well-rubbered track and default setups. The C6R might have the same issue, but I definitely do not notice it in the 370z. The Skippy is also pretty slippery. Now, I'm not a great driver by any means, so maybe that has the most to do with it.

    I don't know enough about the real thing to say if it needs adjusted or not, but I think the common consensus would say that a *little* bit more grip across the board wouldn't hurt. Maybe just an overall bump up of grip levels for all tires would be sufficient. I dunno, just a thought.
     
  5. Hazi

    Hazi Registered

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  6. vitor costa

    vitor costa Registered

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    I don`t think it`s a matter of being a great driver. I`m a experienced driver in almost sims, not a fast one. But I´m not stupid and I can drive a car in a sim. The fact is that I can`t drive the GT cars in RF2 and they don`t have any fun driving. Just trying to keep on the track. Why can I drive and enjoy the Meganes, the Clios, the Formulas and I can`t do the same in GTs? Why can I drive any car on any other sim and I can`t do it here with the GTs ONLY?

    Please don`t tell me it is realistic because everyone knows it`s not. I know how to be carefull in a curve, I know how to be gentle with brake and throttle. It`s almost impossible to make a spin with a GT car at 60km with all the necessary care in turning the wheel. Do you think this is ok?
     
  7. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    This is the problem. Learn how to properly set up a car, it'll get better. There are many books out there on the subject.
     
  8. vitor costa

    vitor costa Registered

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    Thks for the great answer Guy. So I have to learn how to do a great setup for the GT cars to be able to drive them but I don`t need to make a fabulous setup to be able to drive properly the formulas, the meganes, the clios. Sweet.
     
  9. Bart S

    Bart S Member

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    Its just the way you apply positive drive with momentum. I wouldnt go looking at the setup of the car to be the problem, sure a good setup responds to the track better but its mainly the way you are driving it round the corner.
    These are big engine front heavy cars when you apply the gas these cars can kick out alot of torque at low speed a receipt for a spin, throw in some bumps, kerbs and its even harder to drive.
    Now I give you some technobabble which you already knew, here is what I suggest...

    Sufficiently slow the car down before the corner your having difficulty with, just before the corner if your car is off balance you need to be feather light on the brakes as you turn in, to regain confidence after braking blip the gas ever so slightly to give the car some positive forward momentum at this point turn in progressively stay very light on the brakes and tiny blips on the gas till you hit the apex unless its a long corner and u need to keep deaccelarating , at point of apex if your car is not turning in positively and under control chances are your still coming in too fast and left braking too late. You need to learn how to turn the gas on and be able to stay gently on it till the end of the apex. Its at this point I guage the handling of the car and what I have to do with regards to setup, more front rear/brake more oversteer/understeer.

    Also you need to make sure your pedals are functioning correctly, make sure you dont have noisy sensors which will ruin your smoothness, you could try turning sensitivity down but I cant complain about default settings they are fine for me.
     
  10. Dave Thebaptist

    Dave Thebaptist Registered

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    very good advice there from Bart S +1 .....

    i found it very hard to keep the camaro stable while cornering and really hated the overall experience of driving,, but lowering the all round ride height really tightened it up, give it a try.

    some handy info on some setup settings here, http://forum.racingtracks.net/index.php/topic,630.0.html

    good luck in getting it sorted !
     
  11. cosimo

    cosimo Registered

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    Hi Victor, that was my first impression as well when driving the Nissan GTR and Corvette C6R.
    As you say, it's not a question of being gentle with the throttle. Everyone understands that, and tries to be gentle already.

    I found that the most important thing that made a difference for me when driving these cars is, along with everything else you mentioned, rubbered track, setup, etc... is using left and right foot together when braking. Keeping a bit of throttle down helps with a gradual weight transfer and the car is not so uncontrollable anymore. That's just my personal experience. YMMV.

    My other suggestion to you is to post a video of one of those corners where you lose control of the car at 60 km/h. Someone here will be able to help you figure out _if_ you made a mistake. Other than that, there will be some people that don't like how these cars behave. That's part of the beauty of rFactor2 if you ask me :)
     
  12. Seb

    Seb Registered

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    Maybe Need for Speed is better suited for you.
    I personally love the GT cars. If you want I can sent you my Silverstone setup...2.01.8

    Cheers,
    Ramon
     
  13. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    In my opinion there is a huge difference whether the track is rubbered or not. If driving offline, make sure to have some ias doing some laps until you see a nicely rubbered path. Otherwise a green track can be really unrealistic.

    I have driven 370z the most from ISI GT cars. It seems fine from me and wouldn't say it is wrong. If any from here drove the nissan fairlady in the gt academy trial 2-3 years ago it would spin as well if not being gentle with the throttle. However Nissan GTR is very easy to drive in GT5 and not in rf2. I have a doubt about it. In GT5 this car is 4 wheel traction but only rear wheel in rf2. Can anybody confirm this?

    About the two chevys I cannot give an opinion since i havent driven them very much. To me Corvette is a piece of crap in all the sims where I have tried, making me think that american people cannot build good racing cars ( I will be crucified for this :) ) Something so unstable should not be considered a legend. I wonder if the objective of the designers is to kill the driver right after getting the car out of the shop. Some racing cars seem to be designed to reduce weight and increase power as much as possible no matter how unbalanced the result turns out. They include all type of electronic aids. Without these aids I wonder how many people would be able to drive this car to the same limit as for any other car. I prefer the sensations on any other GT over this. Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari seem to be designed to provide driving pleasure to the driver but chevrolet is just power without control.

    Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk 2
     
  14. vitor costa

    vitor costa Registered

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    Excelent suggestion Ramon, thks. Maybe I did wrong buying RF2 or putting this thread in forum but I wanted to be construtive with my opinion only and I didn`t mean to be offensive to anyone. I never drove Need for speed in my life and perhaps would be more fun for me as all the other sims except IRacing (which I don`t own) are or all the other cars in RF2 are.

    Thks to the ones who tryed to be construtive and helpfull. I`m trying to get into some advices but it`s not easy at all and maybe my setup knowledge is far away for the RF2 GT cars standarts. Maybe someone could share a good setup for me to try?

    Sorry for my english.
     
  15. Seb

    Seb Registered

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  16. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    @vitor
    For me, some of the GT cars feel like they doesn't have enough grip at rear axle. They are not missing it by a lot... just a tad not enough for my taste - but to be fair, that's still something which can be covered by setup.
    Another thing is - those cars runs on slicks. Slicks are good only when they are hot (at optimum temperature range) and with proper pressures. Also, "green track" means you will be sliding anyway so some rubber on best line is what you also want to have.

    Now...
    I would like to see that too. Please show us, what you really do with the car at that speed, which makes you loosing control over it.
     
  17. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

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    My first attempt with this car was on Mid Ohio, which has some tricky low-speed corners. And I haven't spun it even once on default setup.

    I believe those GT cars aren't good for trailbraking but pretty good for getting on power early. As long as you apply throttle progressively, making weight shift towards rear before you apply more throttle.
    That would actually make sense in terms of good car balancing.

    Watch carefully from about 0:50 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbUTZbXfzw

    He moves his feet from brake to throttle pretty early in this tight corner and applies throttle gently - you can see that speed starts to increase slowly as he exits the corner. At the same time he is keeping the car in balance using steering wheel.

    This is pretty much what I do when driving GT cars in rF2 and it works perfectly for me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2013
  18. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    It's nothing to do with setup, it's to do with driving style. The stock setups we supply are as near as we can get to a race-driven setup, sometimes they are a race-driven setup.

    Read the Skip Barber profile page, learn to drive the Skip Barber how that profile tells you to, then do the same thing in any car you have this issue in.
     
  19. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    Perfect advice. And this is exactly what I was hoping people would learn in the Skip Barber... Cars which handle this way need to be driven OUT of a corner, not INTO a corner. Read up on Jackie Stewarts driving technique... Read Going Faster!, or just read the Skip Barber profile page and apply what you have read.
     
  20. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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