What I believe to be wrong with the RF2 tire model / grip levels / lack of control

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jameswesty, Aug 9, 2012.

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  1. feels3

    feels3 Member

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    @Jameswesty, with all due respect, if you don't like so much rf2 I think it's time for you to find another sim.

    You should enjoy your hobby but it's seems rf2 is only frustrating for you in every single area.
    Ask yourself what do you need in sim, find that sim and enjoy it.
     
  2. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead Staff Member

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    +1!!!

    This stuff is going to be a bit sick.
     
  3. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    What if answer is "yes"?

    I took Clio on croft with rain and I wasn't able to accelerate even in pitlane. T1 was undriveable at very low speed.
    I'm sure it is not how real cars behave in such situations.
     
  4. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    RF2 is in development I'm hoping it gets better that's the point of making these posts.
     
  5. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    But this looks like won't be for you James, you are against all of this sim, and you want to change It for your own interest... while most of us are happy with the way this is following, someone more than others, but not like you. If you like the way NKPro worked, wait for AC.
     
  6. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    They constantly are getting better, just not an all areas at the same time, contact patch is still not yet finished at 107 afaik and it will be interesting to see how things will improve.

    James, have you put GTR to dev mode already? If not I wrote how to get F1 car to dev mode to driving F1 car to ceiling topic, is at last pages.

    You should have a go with these, they don't require tire re-computing, but to be safe after editing re-starting rF2 would be good.
    StaticCurve=(173, 0.61, 373, 1.176, 673, 0.61) // at -100C there's 52% of maximum static grip, at 100C it's maximum, at 400C it's back down to 52% of max static grip
    SlidingAdhesionCurve=(-9.2, 0.4, -5.2, 1.7, -1.2, 0.2) // velocity, grip multiplier, velocity, grip multiplier and so on.
    SlidingMicroDeformationCurve=(-5.2, 0.3, -1.2, 1.8, +1.8, 0.3)
    SlidingMacroDeformationCurve=(-1.2, 0.2, +2.3, 2.0, +5.8, 0.4)

    With those you can affect quite a bit of things you have been talking about, of course there is science behind all of those, but I figured out way to make driftable tire in rF1 long before Corvette C6 by simply experimenting with values, so maybe you can find out something interesting from there too, worth to have a play with it.
     
  7. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

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    Is it?
    I was asking directly - why give such vague answer then?

    That's strange. I just did a quick test of 0-100 km/h acceleration on Croft:
    - slicks on dry - under 7 seconds
    - wets on wet - over 8 seconds
    - slicks on wet - under 10 seconds

    Maybe something is wrong on your end. Try one of ISI tracks and if problem remains - report it (I suggest making a video).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2012
  8. GaetanL

    GaetanL Registered

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    But maybe your feels are wrong ?

    To become more progressive, we need to reduce grip on tire, but actually MoTec show that grip is good (and that is not a feel it's a fact). Less grip, yes will be easiest because it will be more progressive before spun but that will be more arcade.
    RF2 show for a while how must work a slick tire, I hope ISI doesn't change that.
     
  9. feels3

    feels3 Member

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    What is weird, during heavy rain slick tires have better grip on grass and gravel than on the tarmac.

    I have better acceleration times on grass :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2012
  10. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

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    That's probably because these surfaces remain the same under different conditions. Besides, they're loose surfaces so I guess that's one more thing on the "to do" list.
     
  11. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    I like reality ISI are trying to coppy reality RF2 will get progresively better its not about subjectivty.

    Every patch ISI have released the cars have got better RF2 is more progressive in grip than RF1 ALL driving sims are progressing towards things I enjoy that's because reality is progressive with a near infinite depth.


    Presumably ISI will also improve the sound as well , if you think its decent now then you have issues.
     
  12. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    Well you are going to hate it as simulators get better and more closely replicate reality where cars behave in an entirely predictable way.

    the only thing that causes unpredictable things in how cars move in real life are the random bumps in the tracks or when something on the car brakes everything else is entirely predictable progressive and communicated to the driver that's why driving is addictive.

    Again if I was wrong why is the RF2 stock content more predictable and progressive than the RF1 stock content ?

    I guess ISI are making RF more arcade OR!!!!!! ISI are working towards making RF more realistic and the more advance tire models are more consistent and progressive .

    To become more progressive, we need to reduce grip on tire, but actually MoTec show that grip is good (and that is not a feel it's a fact). Less grip, yes will be easiest because it will be more progressive before spun but that will be more arcade.

    Yes simply having more slippy cars makes things more progressive but thats not what I am on about at all , the fact is evan a very tight car that will lose controle at tight angles within its envalope should still be progressive only everything happens allot faster.

    Like I have said before its as if as the cars become lighter and faster and have more grip in rf2 we lose resolution of how those tires gain and lose grip and so evan though the car generaly moves around in the way you would expect it the issue is the driver has less control over the car than they should do.

    Maybe Its like what happens when you speed footage up by removing frames.

    Say I film something at 25FPS but I need to speed it up but maintain the same overall frame rate what the software does is remove frames from the footage i want to play back faster so everything moves faster in the shorter space of time. It looks almost identical to how reality would look if speed up , but you have lost information.

    Its possable something along these lines might be happening with the RF2 tires as the cars are more gripy and faster rather than having the same data just operate faster we get a lose of depth to the way the tires gain and lose grip.

    In the end only ISI know, it depends how the decided to implement everything, shame they wont talk about it all :)

    Obviously some people don't even perceive an issue so i guess for them the simulation is good enough , other people think its an issue with hard ware only , and most people in the world don't care and play F1 2010 on there x box :p
     
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  13. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    The only change I noticed with the grip in this build, is less diference between clean and rubbered, no more progressive grip lost... I have the same time in Sebring with FR3.5 before and after 107, and I think the same behaviour in rubbered track, but better grip in clean track.


    Mmm... now is better, but in rF are cars like DRM that are so progressive in grip lost :D and, is an evolution, maybe in rF had something weird with grip lost in a lot of cars, but I think NKP is too progressive, and rF1 too unpredictable. rF2 is in the middle, every car is a world, some are grippy and lost grip quicly, and others lose grip gradually. I think now you can recreate a lot of different tyres.

    Other sims are less progressive now, some cars of iRacing with NTM is the example (I asked a friend runs with P2 there and is there since a lot of time)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2012
  14. feels3

    feels3 Member

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    You forgot to add... "for the hundredth time"

    We already know your opinion, thanks for sharing.
     
  15. GaetanL

    GaetanL Registered

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    @Jameswesty

    That's only your feels, but not the reality.

    MoTec show actually no problem with grip, ISI have more important things improve to become the best simulator than to change tire model who's is already like the real.

    And I suppose they know it, they not come anymore in this thread ;)
     
  16. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    and yet the same people counter with things that demonstrate they have missed the point.
    So I have to then try and explain it in a different way.
     
  17. GaetanL

    GaetanL Registered

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    Maybe is a bug, but I've tried on Mills with Clio, with slick under heavy rain, I have more grip on track than on grass. But yes, on gravel slick have more "grip" but I think it's normal, because tires sink on it. which track did you test ?
     
  18. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    "MoTec show actually no problem with grip, ISI have more important things improve to become the best simulator than to change tire model who's is already like the real."

    Apart from the fact they are still working on it and evan if they get it to a high standerd im sure we have a good 30 years or so before anyone is truly happy with a real time tire model ( and evan then im sure there will always be room for improvment. )

    ISI have clearly got it to a level that is good enough for a good number of sim racers for you it does not need progressing because you cannot perceive what is wrong with it.
     
  19. feels3

    feels3 Member

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    Croft, so maybe it's bug related to my track :)

    You aren't the right person to explain to us how the physics should work.
    Your earlier posts shows that you even don't know what tire model ISI is using, so please stop.
    You were also wrong about grip in iRacing NTM, so it seems you have completely no idea what you are talking about.

    I suggest again, take your favourite sim and enjoy it. Really.
     
  20. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    You are trying to convince us of things that most of us don't believe. You are tried all, but we think you have no idea about something you have said. Something you have said, we think is the opposite... most of us against 2 or 3... I think you can do nothing.


    +1
     
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