What does Toban teach us (at least me)?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lgel, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    For X,Y coordinates I really dont think 5-10" changes anything. However in Z it is a lot especially in wavy pattern. As far as I have read there are several techniques to survey terrain and people here talk about laser scanning as if it was magical. Read a little bit more and look at the real precision of the Lidar data that you are using.

    From what I have read from different providers the precision you claim to make a huge difference is probably the best you can get with the most expensive systems. The most precise systems seem to be photogrammetry based ones according to some providers. If I am not wrong Google system is based on aerial photogrammetry.
    https://www.auav.com.au/articles/drone-data-vs-lidar/
     
  2. ECAR_Tracks

    ECAR_Tracks Registered

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    For who that refuses the necessity of a good traditional Topographical Surveying (laser scanner is the more effective way nowadays). This is a kart track I was working on (commercially), have a look the huge difference from the previous version (highlighted in red) which was very well modeled based on Google Earth image and the laser scanned version underneath. The difference can reach 8 meters in some spot, which is an ocean for a kart track. In huge autodromes those 8 meters can easily become 20 meters of pure error.

    [​IMG]

    So, if you think laser scanning is marketing, think twice. As far as I know, at least for kart racing people will be really training on simulators. It's worth to say it's only the XY error. The Z error is beyond the imagination since Google Earth is useless for Z coords, normally people model the elevations based on pure perception from onboard cameras and guessing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  3. LilSki

    LilSki Registered

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    5-10' as in feet not inches.
     
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  4. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    Yep same, but they did run for a few months in rf2 but little interest as at that time many hadn’t converted to rf2
     
  5. kro388th

    kro388th Registered

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    It was kro or krobo ..can't remember .. it was good times tho !! ;-)
     
  6. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Very factual example.

    Huge differences on the trace / layout... and elevations, bumps, irregularities of the track etc etc ??

    There is no debate to have..... facts are here.

    The question is :

    - Can we enjoy on a good fictionnal track like Toban ? For me YES, of course.
    - Is it ideal to train ? NO !
    - For a real track like the nordschleife and where a lot of guys like me drive in the real life, fictionnal bumps / elevations / and also layout / (and even not realistic graphics with wrong trees etc.), can be good for train ? (The goal of a track like this is to train) : NOOOOO !!!
    - Is it logical to have the best physics/real road/best cars content etc. WITHOUT using laser scanned track ? NO !
    - Why we do this ? Because we have at the end of 2017 no choice to use best physics + laser......
    - Honestly, is laser is a real part of the future of simulation ? YES........ of course.
     
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  7. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    It is ideal to train. We dont need a track to be realistic to train.

    I can train my poor driving abilities in all my fictional tracks despite all your argumentation about best possible simulation and bla bla bla.

    The proof that you can train there is that you will improve your laptimes.
     
  8. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Sorry for the confusion. 5-10 feet is indeed an important error. However, I don't expect those differences in XY.

    I am not against laser scanning because it provides the so much needed accuracy in Z coordinate which influences driving much more.
     
  9. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Not ideal to train doesn't mean impossible to train.

    Don't read diagonally, more clever
     
  10. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Read again yourself. I said it is perfectly ideal. I disagree about not being ideal.
     
  11. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    To train for nords maybe but no good to train for other tracks , toban is fine to train to improve driving skills as is almost every well created track real, fictional , laser or not. End of story
     
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  12. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

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    And there you go again....repeating yourself, future of simulation, training, CAPS LOCK, best physics, best everything blah, blah and speaking as if what you say is the absolute truth.

    You said you spend 99% of the time on Nordschleife so if you drive the Nordschleife in real life, yes it will help you.
    But if you don't drive anything else in the game (like Spa, Bahrain, COTA, Monza, etc....) and you most likely won't ever drive them in real life, then why do you care if they're laser scanned or not?

    And EVERY track that is well done (fictional or not) will help you improve your sim racing skills but since you only drive one track, how would you know?
     
  13. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I would like to extend the topic by saying that not only fictional tracks are awesome. I wish if that creativity could be extended to car content as well.

    It should be noted that in nowadays design process, Simulation precedes Reality. In the same way Tilke designed COTA, first as a virtual track who was approved after being tested by simracers, the future of motor racing today is first design a virtual car and later try to make it real after being validated in the simulator. It is interesting that in the future the original track or car will be the fictional one and it is when trying to bring it to life when manufacturers fail to make an exact representation of what was simulated.

    I would love to drive different cars. Well-balanced and fast. It would be awesome if under some restrictions a fastest car contest could be made. Let's call it for example Worlds fastest GT3. Restricted aero, mass and power values. Restricted Dimensions. All using standard GT3 tires coming in the official pack. All contestant cars should be S397 approved for avoiding "cheating". I still need to figure out how to determine which is the best car. Probably the most subjective part. We would need a jury composer of fast drivers who would drive all cars around one or maybe two tracks that can be considered representative of an average track.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  14. Guimengo

    Guimengo Registered

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    Gran Turismo and Sega Rally have had the best fictional tracks for me, within their racing disciplines. I preferred Essington because of the very high speed portion mixed with elevation and flow of corners, plus the challenge of keeping a clean and quick lap in the final two corners. Toban was quite enjoyable with low to mid powered open-wheel cars on the full layout with the blind corners and blind adjustments into apexes. The A1 GP leaked content proposal was a great match at Toban.
     
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