What do you think can cause the "semi-freezing/jumpy" display

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by suryaprihadi, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Open NVIDIA Inspector and look that your PCIe Interface is 3.0@3.0x16 when you are playing rFactor 2. If it is not 3.0@3.0x16 you know that it is PCIE-USB which is causing the problem. If PCIe Interface is 3.0@3.0x16 go to your BIOS and change 3.0x16 to 3.0x8, play rFactor 2 and if those jumps are not present you know that it is your PCIE-USB which is causing the problem.
    I don`t think it is good idea to use PCIe to anything else then GFX card in rFactor 2. gMotor to this game is a master piece which is out from this world and logical thinking is not allowed when you try to figure out what is wrong o_O
     
  2. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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  3. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    I agree Ari, if PCIE lane can be freed for GPU only, it will be good.
    I tested and PCIE for GPU still is 3.0@x16 during a game. This is 1 GPU, not 2 way SLI.
    Thanks, this kind of tip is very good for current and future troubleshooting :)
     
  4. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Did you also go to BIOS and changed 3.0x16 to 3.0x8 and tested if jumps are present?
     
  5. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    This troubleshooting is really fun ;)
    Thanks to all who gave input.

    Too bad I am not IT smart, but troubleshooting I do enjoy.

    I was observing what SKAN wrote :
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....emi-freezing-jumpy-display.57025/#post-905877

    - Was windows downloading one of its updates during this time?
    - That same question can apply to much of the rest of your software.

    I don't allow auto update on OS or any other software. I dont know if this is true, but it seems RF2 when running, will freeze any data download on the internet, it seems to monopolize internet bandwith.

    - Drive speed and fragmentation could also be a factor.

    I use M2 SSD for OS and SATA-SSD for steam library. So these two drives cant even rest, its working all the time. I know HDD sometime can hibernate/sleep. I restarted my Steam and PC every time I start to play on this PC, it is not on sleep mode.

    - There is also the Microsoft Indexing Service which keeps track of every file and other things. This process alone can cause these problems if you have a lot of files or you move/copy/delete files often. This process requires the drive or drives be accessed even if you are doing something important as rF2.
    This one got me thinking ..Thank you SKAN :) .. not due to SSD data transfer disturbance wise, but CPU wise , because Window Search can sometime take a lot of CPU ( 1 thread only maybe ? ).

    Look at how taxing Window Search can be :

    Below two screen captures are :
    1 - RF2 at 10% overall CPU load, while Window Search is 6%.
    2 - RF2 at 11% overall CPU load, while Window Search is 8% ...dang !!
    NOTE : Look at the internet clock I place there to match system time with Afterburner data logging time and camera video logging time, that clock stop the moment RF2 started. Hence I assumed RF2 block other internet activity when it starts.
    c1.JPG
    .
    C2.JPG
    Too bad I do not know which CPU core/thread is being used by Window Search.

    I also do not know if RF2 trigger Window Search to look for files ? ...or Window Search is doing its
    regular thing. I did reset the RF2 ( no PC restart ) and play again, the Window Search stop using CPU resources... LOL.

    Window Search consuming CPU power is a common problem :
    https://www.sevenforums.com/performance-maintenance/168177-sudden-high-cpu-usage.html


    ANYWAY.........
    With other background services/application which could run without me knowing, its time to take a look at how RF2 appoint CPU resources , I must learn some. Been testing a few times. RF2 always appoints my CPU core no 1 thread 1 ( Afterburner call it CPU1, Resource Monitor call it CPU Zero ) as main game task, and CPU core 2 thread 1 for other resources (Afterburner call it CPU 3, Resource Monitor call it CPU 2 ).

    Below graph is not of the same time line as screen recording of Resource Monitor, but it represent RF2 being played for 635 seconds.
    b1.JPG
    .
    b2.JPG
    .
    b3.JPG

    This is the highest average CPU load , 25% and greater. But none last more than 2 seconds.
    The data logging is 2 data points per 1 second.
    C3.JPG

    I logged for 635 seconds, if I sort out lowest to highest average CPU use, discounting the time it happened, it looks like this, to get easy visual look-see of the average CPU use.
    C4.JPG

    Having experience such a simple Configuration Software from Bodnar can cause issue when RF2 is running due to probably some glitch somewhere.... it makes me wonder.

    AA. Can Windows7 ( my OS ) while doing its own application/services/yada-yada ... once in a while, make a mistake appointing CPU resources which may clash with RF2 choosen CPU thread ? Who has priority here, RF2 or Windows7 ?

    BB. How about other parasitic load of extra hardware : steering, pedals, gearbox and whatever extra hardware for RF2 game which needs 2 way communication with RF2 and need some CPU resources.
    Who is the CPU management boss here, RF2 or Windows7 ?

    Its kinda sad and fun at the same time. I wanted simply to play RF2, but I ended up needing to learn more of IT stuff, whereby I am an IT dummy....LOL.

    I realized now the complication of needing to do real time process for a game with high graphic needs and having multiple extra hardware it has to communicate with, steering , pedals and all those things.
    When I edit/render 4K video, my GPU and CPU will throttle up very high, but its not real time, the hardware can take its own sweet time doing the work, more power is only faster process.
    A game cant have delay in its data processing, it has to be real time, if not we then see stutter ...LOL.
    Learning...learning....never ends.

    Again thank you very much to everyone....
     
  6. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    Not yet Ari and I dont think I will try that for now on Single GPU. When S397 ready for SLI and my 3M pcie extension cable arrive, I will try that. I dare not mess with BIOS much :) , me IT 101 is too poor.
     
  7. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I have seen these pauses semi-regularly so I'll confirm they exist. Using Radical and Atlanta MP I experienced several of these pauses. The avg fps was around 115 but the low was 39(obviously when one of these events occurred.) I have been around since the early days of ISI online and we would often experience a half second freeze when online drivers added a new car. I learned to freeze the wheel for just that brief moment and rarely ended up loosing the car. Same theory has worked with rF2. When that stutter/lag/freeze/whatever occurs, I lock my hands in position for the duration of the stutter/etc. RARELY I will be late moving the wheel again and sometimes will miss an upcoming bend. But give it a try....as the stutter begins. FREEZE all movement of the wheel. Take a breath or two and then procede as the stutter clears. May seen odd at first, but you can survive these.
     
  8. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    Aha...thanks. I have not play online yet, but I too heard such glitch. The freeze I had ( due to Bodnar Config Software it seems ) was so severe and repetitive at fast pace, the car will crash .....as I got like Star Trek "teleported" .. :)
     
  9. gor

    gor Registered

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  10. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Using PCI-e to anything else like PCIE-USB card even if board is on a baby PCIEX1_2 s not a good idea especially in rFactor 2.
    gMotor is like anything else in game industry and I think what Stonec wrote about bus usage should make the bell to ring:

    "Observation 1: PCIe Bus Usage % (reported by MSI Afterburner) is very high. This is same regardless of DX9 or DX11. Bus usage in most other games I tried hovers around 10%, in rF2 it approaches 50%. This tells me that a lot of traffic goes between the GPU and main RAM, which is a bit odd, as new GPU's have plenty of inbuilt VRAM and should be very good at minimizing the PCIe traffic, which can become a bottleneck."

    I know that X-99 Asus Deluxe gen 1 has the world’s first PCIe card for any PCIe x4, x8 and x16 slot, adding two Type-A USB 3.1 ports but I don`t think it maters when Bus usage is 50% with 1080Ti + Bodnar v2, 1 USB >> to PCIE-USB card. I believe that Bus is your bottleneck in rFactor 2 and cause to semi-freezing/jumpy" display.

    o_O
     
  11. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    Hi Gor,
    I dont set my PC on power savings :) Its on performance. Thanks for the reminder .
    .
     
  12. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    Hi Ari,
    I never log the BUS % yet, perhaps I shall try next time ... I too was happy to see Stonec test. New learning.
    I still keep that PCIE>>USB card as potential suspect:oops:
    Good one, thanks.
     
  13. Paco572

    Paco572 Registered

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    I had issues very much similar to what being reported, Of course the DX11 updates for the most part have not really caused me any issues until perhaps the last update. As of July 30/17. I had serious stuttering from my system, I installed the latest nVidia drivers, and still, I had stuttering with lag in the steering. Since I run an SLI setup I tried a few things like no FXAA, tried level 4 AA, which seemed to help but didn't cure it. I had "Force Alternate Rending 2" for SLI in the nVidia control panel with no issues for a long time, yet I was stuttering with controller lag. (Scratching my head) So I tried setting SLI to the Global default and this cured the stuttering for me and I was able to go back and turn everything back on FXAA and 5x AA plus PP ultra. I think what went on is, after the rF2 update it didn't like my nvida config for the game and it took "really a reset of settings" to bring it around. I hope this can help people out.

    PACO :)
    ------------------------
    System Specs: MSI Z270 Krait Gaming Mother board A.50 BIOS, intel i7700k @ 4.2mhz, 4.5mhz turbo, 32 GIG G-Skill 3866mhz DDR 4, OS win 10 64bit Home on Dedicated 256 gig M.2 Samsung 960 Pro SSD nVme, Games Dedicated drive 1TB M.2 Samsung 960 Pro SSD nVme, Apps on WD 1 TB SATA III SSD. Video 2x Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080 Ti-11G in HB-SLI, Monitor, 27" ASUS (PG278QR) 1ms, 2560X1440- 165MHZ- G-Sync off. *NEW* Logitech G29
     
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  14. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    My suspicion of stutterings freezes and realtime drop is high CPU usage.
    I don't understand how CPU usage has increased so mich with respect to much older builds. I remember really low CPU usage (around 30-40) when I clicked Ctrl+C some years ago and now it is over 60-70%. No AI in any of the two cases.

    Lately I am getting problems where the car randomly fails to accelerate for several seconds. Nothing related to throttle pedal which remains at 100% according to telemetry.

    Long ago I had out of realtime drops and the result was different.
     
  15. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    Hi Paco,
    My problem was the Bodnar Config Software.
    However you mentioned Global Default Setting for Nvidia, I usually use that too as 2nd test for DX11. I call it SLI bits all bits zero and I force GPU back to Nvidia default setting for other parameters. 1st test usually a different SLI bits, DX11.
    For DX9 Nvidia has Rf2 setting already packed in the driver.

    RF2 for SLI is not there yet. I am so tired testing SLI:(
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/gtx1080ti-2-way-sli.57001/
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....ler-model-it-is-3-lane-fat.55980/#post-902123
     
  16. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    Hi Spaskis,

    I am so new to RF2, I dont know how it was say 6 months ago in terms of CPU load.
    The purple bar I think is using averaging of all cores and thus it look low on my 8 core CPU.
    If you move back to a few post of mine you can see if based on a 2 core /4 thread CPU, it will look high.
    RF2 will use my CPU core 1 thread 1 ( CPU 1 ) as main gaming workhorse and CPU core 2, thread 1 ( CPU 3 ) for others.

    Steering input ( FFB ) I am not sure which core and which thread RF2 appoints, when player json is set to TRUE.

    "Use thread":true,

    "Use thread#":"Use a separate thread to issue FFB commands which may block with some drivers"
     
  17. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    In my case "use thread" true or false does not make any difference.

    I wonder if the cpu usage increase I perceive wrt earlier builds is due to Build itself or due to content (CPM?). I will do some tests with the oldest build I keep in order to confirm/discard.
     
  18. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    I think if DX11 is taxing CPU more when Post Effect is chosen, it would be logical right ?
    How about improved physics to the game, if any since the last 12 months ?
    If more calculation needed, it has to take CPU resources.
     
  19. Paco572

    Paco572 Registered

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    I know SLI does work for rF2 in DX11 for me because my frame rates when up about 40%

    PACO
     
  20. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    When I read Stonec's Observation 1 I was forced to wipe off the dust from my Z77 & I5 3770k@3,5 and run few test just to look how high BUS Usage is in rF2. OS in all rigs is Win 10 Pro.

    ASRock Z77 Extreme 6, CPU: I7 3770k @3,5 Ghz : Bus usage: 40-50%, CPU usage: 20-25%
    ASRock Z87 OC Formula, CPU: I7 4770k @3,5 Ghz: Bus usage: 20%-25%, CPU usage 15-20%
    Asus X99 WS-E/10G, CPU: i7-5960X @3,5 Ghz: Bus usage: 10-15%, CPU usage 10-15 %

    Non of rigs above has semi-freezing/jumpy" display.

    I believe that if OT listens to me and removes Bodnar v2, 1 USB >> to PCIE-USB card he is fine with X-99 Asus Deluxe & i7-5960X@3,5 Ghz. I am not referencing to Nvidia SLI but to have something else which is messing up pci-e lines and usage of it.
    BIOS has also few settings which may help like, Load Optimized GPU settings and DMI, removing core parking may also help some.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017

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