What are the Rules for Autoshifting Aid Penalties?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Gridgirl, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. Gridgirl

    Gridgirl Registered

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    Aside from the fact that i'm against any Penalties for Autoshifting, because there is absolutely no benefit from it. And the description says "Penalties should typically only be used if the aid improves laptimes for a decent driver."

    I would like to know:


    1) What Rules are applied to decide if Penalties are used?


    The way things are stand at the moment:


    Cars without Penalties for Autoshift:

    - Nissan GT-R, 370z
    - Renault Megane
    - Renault Clio PC??? <- don't know that Car in Game, but it's in the installed Folder
    - FISI 2012
    - Formula Renault
    - Historic OW Spark, EVE


    Cars with Penalties for Autoshift:

    - Clio Cup
    - Brabham BT20
    - Skip Barber
    - Formula 2??? <- not sure about this one, because i can't open the .mas File^^



    2) A little explanation what every Value cause.

    The first value is clear to me. The next Values should add extra fuell. But why there are 3 Values for that?



    btw.: Please NO debate about using Aids or not, even less about a 2nd version for Pro's!!!
     
  2. HuntTheShunt

    HuntTheShunt Registered

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    So you can change gear with an H/gate shifter as fast as autoshift? I think not.
    How well you change gear is skill; if you are going to remove skill from rFactor we might as well dispense with the driving part and race our AI cars against each other!

    The whole point penalties for autoshift/paddles vs H shifters is to allow people who like drive classic cars/old open wheelers in a realistic way (rFactor is a simulator not a game) not to be at a disadvantage.

    The problem with rFactor1 was that the program did not know if you were using paddles or H shifter (someone please jump in here and tell me if rFactor2 can possibly know). However, we could tell by looking at the replay if a driver was cheating.
     
  3. kaptainkremmen

    kaptainkremmen Registered

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    Why not?
     
  4. coops

    coops Banned

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    thought all the shifting was the same speed i know its in some file just forget which 1.
    not sure wheather rf2 knows or not but i guess not.
     
  5. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    aid penalties are located in the HDV file of the car and can be adjusted by the mod maker/ISI

    this example is of the clio cup car...been awhile since ive played with them but im pretty sure each setting within the bracket is something like ... (off,low,medium,high) when you use them in game

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2012
  6. Pits

    Pits Registered

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    I read all the words and they made sense even though heavily biased then I saw "cheating" that flew over my head, what was the cheat used sry.
     
  7. HuntTheShunt

    HuntTheShunt Registered

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    In some rFactor1 league racing because changing gear with a paddle is just a nervous twitch of the finger away the members agree to use a paddle shift delay by selecting that method of shifting. If on the other hand they are using a gated shifter that requires the motor arm processes of moving a rod through a gear select gate the driver can select an option for gated selector; this option has no wait state/pause/shifting delay.
    Unfortunately, there was no way for the program to test/trap for the kind of shift system used by a driver and I presume that is true for rF2

    In answer to the "cheating" query: - Therefore assuming the above; if a driver joins a league where the rules state that he must select the paddle shift option if using paddles he/she is a cheat by selecting the gated shifter option because he/she has an unfair advantage.

    There is one debating point in all this: - it may sometimes faster go from 6/5 to 2nd using a gated shifter?

    For the record I drive with paddles because I do not drive using a fixed racing setup. I just bolt my wheel to the desk and go; also because I am not good enough.:cool:
     
  8. Gridgirl

    Gridgirl Registered

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    Hmmmmmm ...

    ... i was hoping for a answer from someone from ISI, just to know the Rules they are using for apply Penalties or not.


    I wouln't any debate, but lets answer some question to explain my opinion.


    Why i see no Benefits?


    Simple:


    With manual shifting, its your choice if (and when) you shift up or down. No unwanted change of Gears in worst situations.

    You will always be faster in corners, by using a lower Gear with higher rpm. Instead of trundle on in a higher gear. With auto shifting you normally have no choice. Specially if you can't change gears settings in Setup.

    With auto shifting you mostly have to break earlier because you benefits much less from enguine breaking. The same apllies to acceleration, if the mod inclined to change gears very low etc.
    (so much for allegedly "faster gear changing")

    example Clio. Most times it takes ages until upshifting from 4th to 5th. Same, even if not so extreme, goes for the skippy.

    and last but not least -> i know what i'm taking about, just because formerly i was also using manual shifting, and i know my laptimes "manual" and "auto" are poles apart.


    btw.: IMHO there is much more Advantage by using auto clutch, but there is no Penalty for it...


    Edit:

    @Jim Beam
    Thanks for the description. hmmmm, but low, medium and high autoshifting? AFAIK only ON/Off but i could be wrong.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2012
  9. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Gridgirl, care to elaborate on the autoclutch advantage and penalty?

    Fully agreed on the automatic shifting, that's slowing you down all by itself :p
     
  10. JGraf

    JGraf Registered

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    autoshift, has four settings (see in-game "settings/difficulty")

    [AIDPENALTIES]
    Autoshift=(0,0.001,0.003,0.004)

    1) off = 0 // First value is typically with the aid off so it should be 0.0.
    2) upshifts = 0.001
    3) downshifts = 0.003
    4) both, upshifts and downshifts = 0.004

    written by ISI:
    // Penalties should only be applied to aids that the vehicle would not be allowed to run with.
    // Penalties should typically only be used if the aid improves laptimes for a decent driver.

    *the rules as ISI set them for the Cleo.

    ---
    i agree auto clutch should carry penalties...
    some advantages of using auto clutch are, no stalling the engine and no time spent waiting to re-start the car from being stalled.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2012
  11. Gridgirl

    Gridgirl Registered

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    I am willing to own that i not yet really thought about it^^

    I know whats written in the .hdv^^ ... Anyway many Thanks. Now i hopefully understand what this 3 Values mean.


    Maybe i worded wrong ... but primary i would like to know the Reasons, why some Cars get Penalties and others not.

    For Example: Historic OW didn't have Penalty for Autoshift, but Brabham have it.
    Sorry, but i can't see any logic behind that (don't get me wrong .. i like the idea of No Penalty for AutoShift ^^)

    And if i attemp to interpret the hdv description:

    Depending on "Penalties should only be applied to aids that the vehicle would not be allowed to run with"
    - (if this includes "normaly not available") Most Cars would get Penalties for Autoshift.


    But depending on "Penalties should typically only be used if the aid improves laptimes for a decent driver"
    - No Car should ever get a Penalty for Autoshift


    There are some more obscurities for me, but don't want to overstate^^
     
  12. Ducatiguy

    Ducatiguy Registered

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    I drive with a gated shifter and manual clutch. That said, I find it much easier to use the gated shifter with auto clutch. The reason is mostly due to rev matching on down shift and my poor heal-toe ability. Using the H shifter and manual clutch, certainly I find the most fun, but will find myself spinning on downshift/corner entry from time to time because I down shifted at too high of RPM, if I enable auto clutch this never happens to me, as each down shift the RPM is matched perfectly.
     
  13. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Use h-shift without auto clutch, just dont clutch, it works pretty well.

    (600 Pantah rules for ever)
     
  14. john gianni

    john gianni Registered

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    Just want to bump this thread as this penalties engine is not clear to me... I cannot fix the pedals of my G25 so it's very hard to me to use clutch. I have autoclutch, auto blip and auto lift on... The posts above would tell me that i run with a penalty of 0.004+0.001 = 0.005 and no penalty for auto clutch which seems strange to me... Anyone could please better explain how it works and possibly how this 0.005 translates in terms of lap times? I'm currently fighting for improving lap times on ISI servers and would like to know if the penalty is always applied to all online games (specifically to ISI servers) or if it's a choice of the server owner. How to understand if a server has penalties enabled?
    Thanks in advance !
     
  15. ViSo

    ViSo Registered

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    http://www.carstat.viso36.es/
    Here you can check all penalties.

    penalties use multipliers, and they are for car weight, and applied as fuel weight. so if you have 0.005 total multiplier, then for Howston HG4 (CAR WEIGHT: 912 Kg) 912*0.005 = 4.7Kg extra weight. in terms of lap times, is relative, a 5kg on Clio cup would be bigger impact than a Howston, for his horsepower.

    About server, I think it isnt changeable, I mean, I think you are always (offline+online) with this penalty.

    Auto Clutch have his own penalty, upshift and downshift have a delay, (0.2 segs for Howston), with autoclutch on, it is higher (mod files dont say more, just ''higher with autoclutch'')
     
  16. john gianni

    john gianni Registered

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    That's very clear... thank you very much! :)
     
  17. SMOK3Y

    SMOK3Y Registered

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    why would you use auto shifting? auto clutch i understand but full auto? why bother
     

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