WC wildcards .... more info please

Just a quick question. You can only use wildcards to change one texture in a shader, right? For example with the T1xT2 shader you can't use wildcards to change the tiled diffuse AND txmap textures. Only one of them?

Also is there a way to choose which one of the textures you'd want to make changeable or is it always the... first diffuse texture?

*changed wrong words

 

You bring up a good question. I have only seen and used the diffuse. The main T1 is the one that changes, but if the templates are made well some of these issues can be over come. BUT I have something similar I have been thinking. I have a car that I want to have the choice of spoiler on or off but I have a AO map for both but how do I use them. When the upgrade option is wing off I want the AO removed.

 

For two different spoilers (Splitter) you need to have them both on the Body template. When mapping you assign the texture as you wouyld normally. So when the splitter is changed in the upgrades or GEN string the correct texture will apply. The other way is to have the two splitters as seperate GMT with a texture for them only. Of cause you'd need two GMT but you can either use the Body ID or use a separate one for each.
Some cars in rF1 have had the rear wing as a separate texture, (Off the Body ID) This could apply to the splitter if you choose.

T1 x T2 Wildcard. As far as I've been able to determine it's only the top texture (T1) that is wildcard changed.

When you look at Assetto Corsa it uses Multiplier to texture it's cars. Basically it build the texture over each other in the same way your template works. It uses the Alpha channel to determine opacity. Though in a lot of cases 100% White which should be solid isn't, so the underlying texture or color shows through. As a painter I hate this system!
Point being they have manage to keep the shading layer (AO) on the car and simply use a tile to color the cars instead of the full size template. This tile is loaded under the AO layer. So if you look at it T1 is the AO layer, T2 is the tile color, They have a changeable T2 wildcard texture working. You can over ride this and use a full size temple to add a livery to a normally one color road car if you choose.

Not sure this is workable in rF2 though. I doubt it.

 

What is this?

Iirc most ac shaders use alpha for specularity and visibility just like rf2. In ac you only need to use alpha multiplier shaders if you want to bake in shadows for tiled textures. In skins in basically all cars the alpha layer just controls the tiled paint chip texture (which can be used to give a paint a carbon fibre or metal paint reflections for example). I don't really see any reason to hate it. It is relatively simple and very flexible system and once you figure out how the textures go together it is super easy to get wide variety of paint effects by just dropping textures into a folder. From modelling pov it is nice and easy as well. Just one uvmap too. Tile scaling is done in sdk. I'd take that system over rf2 wildcards any day. The T1xT2 multi shader in rf2 is nice because you don't need to use alpha channel for the baked shadows but I'd like to have a version of that shader that uses tiled normal map as well...

I definitely hope rf2 moves away from wildcards. It is just unneeded complexity that simply limits how you can do things. A folder where you just drop the skins you want to use would be better for quality and ease of use. I can't imagine it being cheap for performance for example when every different wheel color for example needs its own material and mesh so it can be chosen through upgrades.

Backwards compatibility is probably very important but I'd love to see an option in rf2 to use ac style system where you just drop textures into skin folders and the game automatically picks all the files from the skin folder and then uses the car defaults for the rest. No complex naming schemes nobody knows how they work, no need to set up wildcard materials (because every single texture is a wildcard ...texture), no need to spend any time at all learning how the car maker has chosen his wildcards and no need to set up every color option as separate mesh/material in gjed.

Or at least have a system where one could just choose textures directly in veh file or through upgrades and have the option of using different meshes as well so you can easily offer multiple colors and types of wheels.

The tiles are meant to be used to give the car paint a textured effect (using the alpha of the tiled texture). Car color is supposed to come from the skin itself. I mean you can do it like you describe but I'd not do it like that personally unless I'm doing a road car and want to quickly make a bunch of color options with small single color tiled textures. In which case it is great.

It does not work in rf2 if you can not set up multiple textures to be changeable for single material/shader.

(sorry for rant )

 

I haven't tried any modding for AC in any form. I do own it but can't remember when I last drove it. BUT what I can say is I have converted 2 tracks from AC to rF2 and from what I have seen it must be so much easier to mod for AC. The extra texture and shader work required is 10 fold to get the track looking good in rF2. Barbagallo is my main example

 

I believe the wildcards are more geared towards additional skinning possibilities. I like the idea of wildcards, if you set up the uv mapping as a whole for the entire skin (body, spoilers, rims etc) on a single template, you don't necessarily need wildcards. Plus if they define a set characteristic of a vehicle, you couldn't add additional features of the vehicle that may only be specific to that vehicle, example, a four wheeler might need a different additional part skin template that a car wouldn't have, in which they would have to define it ahead of time and having wildcards gives greater flexibility to the modders.

 

You'd still need the one body ID (Template) set as a wildCard. If not you'd only have one car or livery. The car is only one model. So to create multiples as in teams using that model. The idea to have all the parts on one ID (Template) isn't to bad but I'd suggest not the Rims. I'll explain that latter.
With a car that has in Nibiru's case two different style front spoilers, In my way of thinking I'd have them both on the Body ID and not have what could turn out to be three, Body ID, Spoiler 1 ID and spoiler 2 ID making more textures than we would really want. Remembering that we also want Windows, Drivers, Helmet, Rims, two ICON (For rF2). Then we could be looking at adding two more if a car has two different style rear wings. You really want to keep this down to a minimum because the more you add, the more performance is needed to run it. One, two cars are fine but add up to 30 odd on the grid???

I suppose in reality all teams have their own characteristic on their cars, We generally don't see this in rFator or AC for that matter because the differences are quite distinctive and we need to have a full model to represent each teams cars accurately. If you would think of the Grill mesh for example you can change that if (And it should be) set up on the Body ID (Template). We often see parts on the Body ID that really could have be placed on a different ID Template. (Un-paintable). The less room we wast on the 2048x2048 sized template the bigger we can make the main more visible parts. This size can mean the difference between a high res and low res texture even when the ID is the same size.

In rFactor1 there are cars that have the Body ID on half the available space on a 2048x2048 size template.The result of this was the liveries appeared as a low res 1024x1024 resolution even when the template was 2048x2048. This to me was very poor thinking to not get the maximum out of what you had available to work with.

To the RIMS
Rims on the Body ID? Well never seen that done, but not like it wouldn't work it goes with the above thinking to get the maximum out of the template size so to get the resolution as high as possible on the available space.

But today, We see the trend going towards blur textures on the rims. So to have the rims on the Body ID becomes a mute subject because now you need three textures, 00 (Static) 01 (blur) 02 (burred more). Because of this we're loosing the ability to change the rim color in the teams files.
Most cars set up with blur rims use three textures.
This example is the rim I made for the GTR GT3 in Assetto Corsa a few year ago.


These would be two separate textures in the teams file. Their just here as a example only.

In rFactor2 you'd need a second blur, again not here for obvious reasons. AC only uses the two textures. (Better option)

This example shows what I'd consider the best way to set up a rim with blur.

The WORST I've seen for years would have to be the recently released GTR 35 GT500 car by Studio 397 were "6" textures are used! The Rim ID is the messiest pile of rubbish I've seen for so long I thought that type of screw up was in the past! Guess I was wrong!

If we can adopt the AC way to do rim blur like the above with only two textures we can still be able to change the rims colors through the teams folder. BUT a hell of a lot more thought needs to be applied to the way there set up. Unlike the GT500!

With the GT500, The screenshot of that car shown in the recent monthly road map, clearly shows the spokes of the rim aren't viable at all! You can clearly see the brake glow but no spokes. This said to me the rim blur is far to strong. You should at least see something of the rim. It's not the only car that dose this in rF2. It's well and truly over kill IMO.

 

I have given up on the WCRIMS for now as I have 4 different rim styles. I have made them upgrade options with some having different colour options instead.

 

Setting up different rims with wildcard isn't hard. It's when you try to add rim blur is when things go to sh$t. Forget that rubbish, it's only to appease those that want to take screenshots and are to lazy to blur the rims in photoshop or other similar. Having the liveries look right is the more important of the two.

Enduracers use the GEN String to set rims and colors. This means you use multitudes of Rim.GMT each set up with the three required textures for blur.
Just a idea for you to consider.

 

I have 2 types of car original that has upgrades for rims and the race version which is using genstring to define each rim for each car so no upgrades on them.

 

The Stockcar mod by ISI, the rim textures aren't blurred, the only set of the wheel that were blurred were the rubber. When you view the rims in rF, they don't need to be blurred because it happens within the game somehow. Not sure why this is the case with the stockcar mod but I definitely understand if there was rim blurring textures that occur, it would be better to do it separate from the livery. I'll try to do a quick video if I have the time to do that today of the rims with one texture and the blur that occurs within the game.

 

I really dont get the problem at the moment. In rF2 tire have to be blurred (0,1,2 for each compound) and rims not. Where is the problem?

 

While you are there, have your cake and eat it too by setting the final rim determining digit for the WC textured one. Gives the creative types the option when your predefined style/color upgrade options aren't enough.

 

Or just have an option in upgrades (and via gen strings) to choose textures directly.

 

How do you set the texture up to change only?

 

I meant that it would be nice to have such option. Afaik it can't be done now.

 

Would be nice.
I've just thought now i could make 1024x1024 rim texture with 4 x 512x512 rims on it, each 1 a different style so i can get 4 rims in 1 WC wildcard.

 

The great about vertex thing colors being adjustable through upgrades and/or veh file is that 397 could basically offer a color picker inside the game for color selection for car parts. Unlimited color options with only one mesh/gmt. Would definitely make life easier for offering different color wheels. Lfs has had something like this for long time and it even works with skins. You could even add another darkness slider for the specularity and get to choose whether to have matte, clear paint or chrome reflectivity.

It would probably need its own material and tick box to allow the color customization inside the game so the modders can control what material colors can be adjusted. Good for things like rollcages, a-arms, rims, chassis painted parts. But not something you'd want to enable for tire rubber or windshields.

 

I should have said more. The AO map I'm talking about is the AO on the main body. I have several AO maps for different scenarios. for making skins. but how would you get the main wccarbody to change AO map skin when selecting wing off, on, and between the 2 types of spoiler