VR vs Monitors

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by John R Denman, May 20, 2020.

  1. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    Rather than sidetrack other topics (my fault) I figured it would be worthwhile to open a new one...
    There are advantages and disadvantages to either Man Machine Interface (MMI) option. Just like suspension tuning it's really an individual preference.

    Visual realism is a perceived value. In most instances the ability to turn on's head and see in all directions is certainly going to offer the most realistic impression. VR will definitely stand out in that respect.

    Resolution is also a key parameter in perceived value. That's where a great deal of overlap takes place between VR & Monitors in part due to how the human eye and optical physics work. Effective focal lengths of the human eye differ widely in how the brain interprets the image. That's why some people have visually induced seizures and others don't. And with age, the human lens begins to harden extending the minimum focal length, and therefore the resolution level they can actually perceive. I'm guilty on that one.

    Farsighted/Nearsighted eyes tend to be more prone to optical distortion that impact resolution; VR tends to be better for farsighted, where Monitors tend to be better for nearsighted regarding resolution. That would seem to be just the opposite of what's expected from an optical physics point.

    Watching F1 or IndyCar drivers you'll rarely see them turn their helmets for some good reasons. First wearing a HANS Device and strapped into the confines its quite a strain to do repetitively. Second, there are few points where they need to. Opening practice at Monaco is an exception at points like the hairpin but are quickly committed to memory for most drivers.

    As for FOV settings etc. that depends on the individual and to some extent how the train their brain to perceive the view.

    No matter which MMI one chooses can be effective so long as they can maintain the resolution level of forward vision to anticipate the responses that work best for them. No one MMI is best for all people.
     
  2. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I'd add a couple of things of VR
    VR reduces a lot the bad effect of the presbyopia because your eyes are not focused near.
    With VR you measure the distances better
    And about the movement of the head is important to take into account that during an overtaking you can see the cars next to you and is easier to drive in parallel with another car. All of us know that this is diffucult to do with a monitor.
     
  3. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @John R Denman F1 drivers can and do turn their heads, in slow sharp corners and when tracking another car in their mirrors. Of course we're not talking about actually looking sideways (with the head) but enough turn to make looking to the side possible.

    We've probably all seen videos of people playing where they seem to obsessively hit "look left" and "look right", more than would ever really be necessary, but it does highlight the drawback of single screens that aren't gargantuan.

    A flipside comment on resolution: your eyes making things a little blurry can help perceived resolution because the pixels aren't so obvious :p
     
  4. Highlandwalker

    Highlandwalker Registered

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    Another consideration is motion sickness. I can drive for hrs in real life and on my sim with single screen without any hint of motion sickness. I tried VR on a PS4 race sim and with in about 3 mins I had really severe motion sickness which affected my for about 2hrs, I found it to be worse than bad sea sickness. As much as I'd like to use VR it's just not possible. So I would advise any body considering VR is to try it first if possible otherwise it's wasted money. I think VR still needs more development to be as good as high quality monitors, so I'm sticking with my 32" 4k monitor.
     
  5. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    While its possible to turn your head in an F1/IndyCar, it comes with some neckstrain to turn very far. Having worn a HANS Device before I know the restriction and strain it imposes under racing conditions. Add 2G's of force and you won't turn your head much entering, through, or exiting a turn many times without having a sore neck. Moreover turning your head only gives you a better view of the Halo.

    [​IMG]
    With a side glance the driver's eyes can see the mirrors without head movement, and since the addition of the Halo there is only enough clearance between the helmet and sail panel padding to inhibit road vibration.

    Distance resolution on a 4K LCD is superior to VR. That's part of why they're preferred in the Lockheed Martin F35 training simulators, although it helps that the pilot can see the instrument panel and more quickly read them. The other reason is they have refresh speeds up to 240Hz. They have an 8K upgrade in the works.

    VR LCD/OLEDS still have some catching up to do in part because VR is still a niche market in the volumes most of the leading display OEM's like Kyocera deal with. High density on a small footprint with high refresh rates in a small package has a ton of technical issues to resolve to make it cost effective for high volume, but progress is being made and eventually VR displays will reach parity in terms of resolution and refresh rates.

    That's not to say one MMI class is better than another, as its never going to be a "one size fits all" offering.
     
  6. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    the VR immersion far surpasses any monitor no matter how much resolution they have, unless you feel dizzy, even so it will only take a while, until the brain gets used to it
     
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  7. Highlandwalker

    Highlandwalker Registered

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    I have never been able to map read as a passenger in real life without feeling sick after a few minutes no matter how many times I try. If any body has the same problem, VR will be even worse. I have tried other types of games on my sons VR and they all made me feel sick. So I stress try before you buy.
     
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  8. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I'm not disagreeing with your opinion. I'm saying they do move their head sometimes to check their mirrors.
     
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  9. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member

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    Never compared VR vs Monitor before really, but I feel like I could point out some things not mentioned yet, so here's my perspective. My experience includes more than 3 years with CV1, Odyssey, Pimax 5K+ and 5K XR headsets.

    VR advantages:
    * Stereo vision allows measuring distance to objects more precisely, just as 2 eyes allow IRL. In racing, that means ability to drive really close to walls, barriers, apexes, opponents compared to 2D screen.

    * Realistic scale without effort. No need to use caclulator etc to calculate FOV and realistic scale. Stuff is naturally scaled realistically in VR. It looks exactly as if you are sitting behind the steering wheel.

    * Compact ability to have high FOV. I do not have room for 3x60 inch TVs around me unfortunately, and that's the main reason I am using HMD. And, no, you don't have to turn your head all the time to see what's going on at edges of your vision.

    * Immersion - you do not see your real surroundings in VR. At first it is not a big deal, but eventually racing while seeing the room becomes distracting.

    Monitor advantages:
    * State of software optimizations. With monitors, there are no framerate issues using current hardware. VR support requires custom rendering, and very few products on the market implement VR support in depth. The result - constant compromises and fiddling with settings etc. With monitors no need for that. Often VR support is outright buggy: broken reflections, culling issues etc.

    * Image quality - I did not get a chance to experience Reverb, but HMDs I had/have do not look as good as monitor image, yet.

    * Comfort and ease of use. No fiddly HMD, cable, and Steam VR. Also, you see keyboard, mouse, rim, button box.

    To conclude my post, if I had room to physically surround myself with 3 huge screens, I would stay away from VR for now (primarily because of poor software support). As I do not have room for those screens, VR it is :)
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
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  10. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    Another disadvantage of VR is the performance.
    The use of CPU is much more intense using VR
     
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  11. pab3183

    pab3183 Registered

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    I have been running a 42" LG TV as my monitor for a while and have been tossing up whether to go triples or VR.
    I bought an oculus quest and connected via oculus link and have to say the immersion was was amazing. however, the resolution was pretty disappointing and the headset gets a bit uncomfortable after a while - especially in my shed during a Perth summer. Obviously there are better VR devices out there but I just don't think we are there yet.
    Triple 27" monitor upgrade coming soon for me.
     
  12. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member

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    Which is mostly software problem as there are techniques to avoid that. So hopefully situation will get better in the future.
     
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  13. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    Just to touch on the "turning of the head" discussion, I've noticed in myself that I now turn my much less with an HP Reverb as I did with my Oculus Rift. The better Resolution in the Reverb is more thank likely the reason for this, where before with the Rift I was struggling to Focus so relied more on keeping the Sweet Spot "centered" in my vision so therefore having to turn my head to look in the mirrors for example, with the Reverb it's more a quick glance to the Mirrors with minimal head movement.
     
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  14. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    It was probably a couple of years back, somebody posted a video of a real racer trying VR on a sim. At the start of the race he constantly checked both mirrors over and over through the first few corners, then less and less as the race wore on.
     
  15. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    one of my best friends tried the VR and lasted two curves, after which he got dizzy, ... but the next day he tried again and managed to do two laps, and he found himself very badly again, .. every day he tried a little , but every day it improved, after twenty days I stop having dizziness ... he certainly always says that he had a very bad time, but that he does not return to the monitor
     
  16. Binny

    Binny Registered

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    IMHO most ppl get some kind of sickness to begin with suggestions put on a fan for fresh air start off with short sessions and work up.
     
  17. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    There are people who can use VR for hours from the first moment, but if someone has sickness has to stop quickly.
    If it's the case is important to begin with VR little by little.
    I had this problem but some friends of mine had already told me what i had to do.
    The first day that i tried it, i could use the headset less than 2 minutes.
    The second day more than 5, and day by day the thing was better.
    After a week i could be more than 1 hour and in 15 days i could use the headset without any problem.
    At the beginning, the most important thing is not to force. You have to stop at the same moment that you feel dizzy.
    Doing this i never had a headache and the rest of the people in our VR group neither. In our champ the % of people using VR is big (near 50%), without problems.
    The sickness at the beginning depends on the person and the PC. The lag in VR provokes dizzness when you're not used to it.
     
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  18. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    Don't forget for the possibility to duck you head forward in karts for less drag :p
     
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  19. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    Or in ETS2 lean out the window and get a blast of fresh air whilst driving through Poland!
     
  20. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I'm hovering around VR since the beginning, still thinking if is better to keep waiting or dive jump in it.
    Anyway is almost time for an hardware change , budget wise monitor win ... unless you plan to go triple or enormous. Today 144Hz monitors of decent size and resolution are affordable (well, unless you want 3). And you can get quite powerful GPU in the used market for around the same money.
     

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