Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by jtbo, Jul 30, 2012.
This is in its WIP state already very great and interesting to drive. It is particular interesting for me, cause i made a lap as a codriver with my friends volvo on the nordschleife this summer. Im very interested in proper physics simulation. Which volvo 300 is simultated with this mod? (sry if this already was mentioned in the thread, but i didnt find the info).
have you recorded it?
Version of car is Volvo 360 GLT race car, used in DNRT's V360 Cup.
Main differences are:
-3 to -3.5 degrees front camber instead of -0.2 degrees.
Lot stiffer springs front and rear
Koni adjustable dampers (koni yellows)
Toyo R888 semi slicks, instead of street tires, those are very close to Regional Skippy's tires so I used them as a base.
Also slightly less weight, but change is very small because safety equipment adds weight.
Actually rules specify Camber only at recommendation and suspension must be original type, front springs have to be original diameter, dampers must have same mountings as originals and it is allowed to lower the car, but you can choose it yourself, it is recommended to lower 60mm by rules and most have done that.
Those changes are making car very different from street version though, lot less roll, lot stiffer ride, turns much better, so this is not fully comparable to street going version in handling. However street version is perhaps bit boring to drive in a sim, also destroys front tires a lot when driven on track, lot of understeer, but on wet much better
"How much invested in this mod?", depends bit how you count, but somewhere around few thousands since rF1 release.
And indeed graphics need serious work, sadly area I have not been able to learn, but hopefully possibility to test how these drive might help to get some artists interest in making improvements to that area, my only hope really, it is ok if one can do only part to car, do a seat, dashboard, etc. Of course body would be needed first to get other stuff in correct size.
Nearly unlimited reference pics as I can take photos from two of these cars, might take few attempts to get them correct, but it's learning process too.
As there is Zolder track in making and these Cup cars race on that track too, it will be interesting to compare the two, there are youtube videos from that combination too so I'm quite excited from future. Zolder, Assen and Zandvoort are tracks they did run this year I believe with this smaller tire size, so no longer horrible rubbing for them either.
There is a lot of fun here,thanks jtbo and the best wishes for this proyect
View attachment 5145
Here is 0.21:
Dev mode version:
Changed FOV to cam file, I can't see difference in cockpit view, but perhaps other ones with better eyes can tell if anything changed?
Adjusted suspension travel to relatively close values that real cars have, just had to leave more bump travel for front, but it is really small amount still.
Changed clutch a bit, I'm missing two numbers to get it calculated properly, must hunt those a bit, also set baulk torque following LesiU's tip so flat shifting now causes clutch to slip, real car does get similar level effect if you shift poorly too.
Rear camber set to specification of rules, front also.
I fixed skins and made few extra colors, also one skin that sends message
Instead having 4MB skin these are around 1MB, also there is darkblue light that has no alpha and is even bit smaller in size.
Also recorded new gear change sounds today and put them in, they adjusted volume to quite low as you don't really hear it when driving, but if sound is missing it can be recognized that something is missing.
Removed passenger seat, it is a race car, no need for that, maybe 0.1fps more.
Removed two AI related lines from HDV that were from rF1, AI is perhaps tiny bit faster now.
These are very heavy for my cpu, hardly can run 10 AI cars as CPU purple bar goes to max, not sure why though.
Now it should be possible to visit upgrades screen without problems, I did remove quite many parts from car though so it may look funny in showroom, not that it would not look bit funny when driving too at it's current state.
I did read that force feedback is very weak, I wonder if that would be wheel specific issue, is here anyone else who has weak FFB?
unfortunately not, i was too busy not to scream loud.
I get this too with V0.2 even with 3 AIs sometimes, simulation gets out of realtime -> CPU load is too high.
It's coming very nice jtbo! Just had a race with the AI and was really fun!
Regarding the FFB, yes, it's a little week, but not too much, I felt the FFB was not bad at all on the whole. Also, I had to change the wheel rotation to 900 degrees from inside the game controller settings.
Something I noticed was the engine sound. It seems a bit low. I increased the sound a lot, but I could still hear the engine sound 'far away'.
Also maybe you can enable the brake balance?
Keep it up mate, it's gonna be great
Very first impression, does it really have that small max steering angle? Even my FC rx.7 had 30deg and it was way too little for sideways action I was always hitting the steer bumps.
Atleast volvo 240 has loads of range.
Oh, it has more, your wheel does not, so it is set for correct steering ratio with 900 degree wheel, using more lock would be cheating
My 240 has lot of lock, 360 probably quite near the same amount.
FC has probably around 3 turns lock to lock? Volvo has over 4 turns lock to lock.
This is again reason why rFactor could use steering ratios instead of steering lock, no matter how much wheel turns it would always be right, with less wheel turning it would just result smaller range of steering.
Engine sounds are bit low indeed, not sure how much I want to increase them as race series rules state that 65dB is max noise from exhaust, also wind noise is pretty much par or even bit more than engine noise in real car at around 140kph, now race car has of course 1 less than 2mm thick carpet and few pieces of 2mm bitumen removed, sound insulation probably does not do much at all to noise.
But if Clio screams past one should not be able to hear engine in these cars.
However I need to increase volume at some point at same time I want to put wind noise in with correct volume level and hopefully proper ramp up too.
I did record those samples from my car, but I had only video camera then, which automatically adjusted recording levels, now my car had straight trough exhaust, my ears were constantly ringing after driving it, so that might affect a bit to recording too, but at least it made sound to be bit more than just humming of fan
That cpu physics thread issue is however currently priority, I need to find out what causes that.
This is mostly old work, but I did do something to it yesterday and today, not very high quality I'm afraid, even it is going to be very high poly at the end:
You can download max file from here with blueprints so it is possible to work with the file if wanted:
When I have time, I try to build bit more to it, mostly it will probably work as helper to have things placed correctly and to be correct size, not sure if I can make any model that would look good by any standards, but at least there is now some file you could easily take and make bumper, hood or even some interior objects, which of course require me to get some pics up...
Some random and even some unrelated pics from one of mine, other one has actually no interior at the moment, this one from link is earlier base model so interior for example is bit different:
OMG I think I'm getting really old as I find this Vulvu 360 to be an excellent racecar! You really need to continue developing this car because I think it's going to offer excellent online races! What I've experienced is that low-power vehicles like Clios and Skip Barbers tend to offer best online races. Of course there's some work to do on graphics but I think you'll manage it. If it feels too much then maybe ask some advices or help from some experienced car modeller? I bet they'd be happy to give some support.
Only complain I can think of about handling is that does the modified version really have this high steering ratio? I mean it's HUGE! I understand the original road version has it but really the race version too? Are you absolutely sure of it?
Check this guys' steering (@3 minutes)
It is standard steering they use in V360Cup, it is not allowed to alter it at all, if you check incar videos posted earlier, you can see how much they turn the wheel and if anything I think it is more than I need to turn in sim, it is indeed that bad ratio, but luckily car catches slides itself, just let go of wheel and floor the throttle, one reason why it is popular car with beginner drifters I guess
Good news are that wgeuze is starting with graphics, he has already worked with tires and is starting with body too, so future looks good and I'm quite excited and very thankful of this, future looks really promising and I hope that more people can enjoy from nice close racing in future
Close racing is best racing, with relatively easy to drive cars with limited setup possibilities one gets a lot of close racing and even those that can use less time for sim racing can get into really nice races, I think that is where this car will have lot to offer.
I have been driving so much with cars I'm working on which most have very slow steering, that I find ISI race cars to have steering that can't be turned and car jumps off the track already, I must warn you, if you drive more of this car you will get used to steering and start to find same
18-28:1 ratios mostly what I have been driving in ChaseUSA mod, but there is also Kenworth which has 14 degrees of lock with 900 degrees setting of steering wheel, that might change in future if I get more data for it.
Good thing with slow steering is that my neck does not start to hurt with lot of driving
Steering rack from Talbot, Sunbeam or something like that actually did fit to Volvo and it should give faster steering, I have data somewhere, but after race version I hope to be able to do street version and for that I put such option, but that is probably next year's stuff. Lot to do until race version is in condition that I can do real release, that is also why I don't put links to first post yet.
I'm quite happy to see how feedback has been quite positive, which actually has surprised me a bit, after all graphics are in quite horrible state and physics are not quite complete yet, but this certainly encourages to keep going, thx
That is really something special!
Exactly what I was thinking too.
Already experienced this! However came to conclusion that faster vehicles (or fast behaving) still need faster steering.
About that unchangeable steering lock. I think you should make it changeable because unfortunately it really doesn't prevent anyone from "cheating". For example I can choose whichever steering ratio I want by just changing steering range from in-game settings. My Logitech G27 has 900 degree range but that's can be changed programmatically (which rF2 steering range setting actually does). Now that steering lock is locked then those who don't have 900 degree can't have that realistic steering ratio. Well yes there could be problems getting out of pits but think speed-sensitive steering setting is ment for that.
Of course what you and I have been saying for a long time is that car-specific steering lock should be replaced by car-specific steering ratio. My opinion maybe differs there that this should be changeable because it simply cannot prevent "cheating" anyway and only make things worse because there are so many different steering range wheels out there.
That is something I have planned already, I intend to do that Niels way though, setting predefined locks for different wheels / rotations.
Currently there is only setting for 900 degrees because at this stage I only support 900 degrees, when things work enough good that I can say they are nearly finished, then I make those upgrade options.
With different steering locks it can become bit difficult to know if feedback is because wrong lock settings or some other thing related, so that is also why I have currently settled with only 900 degree wheel support.
Cheating will probably always happen, I don't worry too much about that, what I want is to make as sure as possible that honest folk get correct driving experience so that they can feel how car really is to drive, that again is why I think what Niels did is brilliant idea, to set steering from upgrades, just pick rotation your wheel has and you get correct ratio, no need to do math or anything.
Of course that is something then why I need to figure out what kind of rotations wheels usually have.
I'm using G25 myself and I recommend these kind of settings for everyone wanting to get same experience I'm having with the car (strength I have 102-106%) :
Those settings I use with any car in rF2, also in rF1 and every car, even F2 has some ffb for me. With Volvo I use FFB multiplier of 1.0, but with most cars I have it 0.5 to 0.6, just to avoid ffb clipping, I use pedal overlay plugin to see that I'm not getting clipping.
best hand braking machine ever, thanks JTbo. wanna see what happens it when it gets an engine with decent toque.
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