Volvo300 (WIP)

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by jtbo, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    I guess my forever project fits here.

    In making since rFactor1 was released, well there was few years as I could not do any modding, just tiny bits here and there, maybe some day I get it finished, perhaps for rF3, but meanwhile it is WIP, refining as learning new.

    With help from Tuttle and Johannes, I have come to conclusion that I really need to make new model that is more suited for my purposes, which is bit sad, but unavoidable. It of course will cause more time needed for learning to model and make the model.

    Anyway here is video for your amusement, measuring bump travel, non edited original footage:


    I try to make everything to perfection with this vehicle, but as I'm not very talented modeller, actually no modeller at all, it might be that I can't get it quite so perfect that I would like to graphically.

    Textures are even more of problem, I draw like 6 year old.

    Anyway, I try, here is attempt of getting photo from headlight glass so that I could make texture and model for it as I want to make 3d headlights. I'm not quite certain how to make glass material yet, also I'm not quite certain how to make texture properly, but I know I need a bump map and maybe all that I need is glass material with bump map or then I need also texture for glass, that is something I need to try and learn.

    View attachment 3317

    Yeah, I suck with graphics stuff, but as long as there are nobody else willing to do them, I need to learn to do all.

    Currently I have physics nearly done, sounds need bit work for low rpm + exterior sounds, there are custom skidding sounds, gravel sounds and of course engine sounds which are my own recording.

    With physics I try my best to measure and calculate values based on real car, I have two of cars to take measurements from.

    Several engine combinations have been measured with dynamometer, even iginition spark and rpm limiter is documented:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Greatest challenge is to understand how to convert real world data to format rFactor2 can use it and so that it produces correct results. For example rubber bushings can change characteristics of swaybars, so when you input real data to swaybars they might be too stiff, not an big issue with race cars, but street cars don't use generally very stiff rubber bushings.

    I do plan also make some models closely to specification of Volvo 360 Cup (racing series run at Zandvoort, Zolder etc) and as turbos are coming to rFactor there will be some mad motor upgrades that are based on real world motors that car enthusiasts have put to these cars.

    This is currently side project as my main project is Chase USA which we make together with Johannes, but as this Volvo has so much real world measured data it is really helpful in understanding how rFactor2 engine would like to get it's data, so making cars only by numeric data is then easier to get somewhere close if not quite perfectly right because some data is rather impossible to find with limited resources.
     
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  2. ROON

    ROON Registered

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    Good luck, I'm sure it'll be awesome. :)
     
  3. tommy86

    tommy86 Registered

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    Another interesting project, good luck!

    I'm sure that forum gurus can help you if you need it ;)
     
  4. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Thx guys :)

    Old version (for rF1) of car was commented by race driver that drives Volvo 360 cup that he got same times and speeds at corners as in real car, from that I believe there has been several improvements made, so I believe that car is quite good, but as one is always blind to his own work, there can be still major flaws, there usually is, but no problem, when issue is found it allows me to work fix for issue :)

    Also as I would like to make project as open as possible, anyone who likes can contribute, here is blueprints I stored from Suurland site, which I don't know if still exists, but same images are in manual of car which I stored to good place when I moved a house, someone just should inform me what was that good place..

    Anyway if someone has interest in making model, some parts for it or some custom bits, everything is open board:
    [​IMG]

    I hope that some day I manage to clean up my folder structure so that I can put up WIP version for testing and error spotting purposes. When I get to point where I have my own model and some textures for it I'm willing to share max file so anyone can work from that too, someone has hour and interest, he then could do hour's worth improving, might be interesting community experiment.

    edit: Here is small presentation of my (lacking) modeller skills.

    This is first fender I started, as you can see it was utterly crap, so I never get around to continue it.
    View attachment 3319

    This one I started perhaps 1-2 years after the first one, can't remember so well:
    View attachment 3320

    As can be seen, it had also lot of issues too and I never got around to continue that:
    View attachment 3321

    Instead I tried to make wheel, I follow a tutorial, tutorial did not mention what to do if one gets issues of dark areas that Tuttle says to be tensions, so I never get around to continue that (you start to get a picture?)
    View attachment 3322

    Last spring I could not get out from bed for a while as my back went bad, I started again with my fresh student version of max, I did not start from fender, I thought that I start from some other part for a change, it is perhaps better, but I can't find the file anymore anywhere, well I have picture...
    View attachment 3323

    It still has issue of wandering lines etc. but that is my learning since 2006, some 6 years or so, if I progress as well I might able to make model by time driving a oil product powered car is banned from general public, so that would be around 2040 I guess :p
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2012
  5. jimcarrel

    jimcarrel Registered

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    At the rate things are going that 2040 might be 2018--- you'd better get busy!
     
  6. StevenQ74

    StevenQ74 Registered

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  7. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Yep, that is Volvo 360 cup I did mention. I have some specs from makers of those cars, if I haven't misplaced them during the years.


    @Jimcarrel, that is very true, but that year is so close, if progress is as 'fast' as it has been, I doubt that I can make it :D
     
  8. TiTaN

    TiTaN Registered

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    I'm looking forward to see how this soft suspension cars handles in rFactor 2 hope it will be fun as hell!
     
  9. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Soft suspension works really well, but I haven't quite figured out tires yet, too much lateral grip, but still car is able to do burnout at 2nd which is not possible at all in reality, so that is currently what I'm wrestling with mostly.

    When adjusting grip parameters, below 0.8G at skidpad means so low grip values that car feels like it would be on ice all the time, but is stil performing correctly by numbers. Of course acceleration suffers from lack of grip which is very far from reality, but when acceleration is correct car pulls something like 1G or more at the skidpad.

    Same issue with every car so far that I have worked with, so I need to learn more about tires, until I can get performance to be what it should be.

    It is really easy to make racing tires to have close to reality performance, but lower performance levels seem to be where challenge lies.

    It is matter of time to get that sorted however.
     
  10. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    I took few photos today, tried to make textures. Seat material came out best of them all, I believe, what do you think?

    View attachment 3355

    It is free to use, modify, do what ever you like with it.

    edit:
    I did upload some other textures too, but some are probably not very usable or need some editing that I have not been able to do, they are free to use and modify, also if anyone can make some texture useful it would help to have such for this car too :)
    http://jtbo.pp.fi/images/album/rfactor/v300_textures/

    Here are two of which came out best, quite bit decreased size from original.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Taking photos for textures takes some practice, there is lot to improve and even more with editing photos to be useful as textures.

    Rear turning signal that goes around to corner is still defying my attempts to make it usable, it is round shape and textures generally are square shapes, that leads to problem.

    edit2:
    Render with that headlight texture, using gmotor materials:
    View attachment 3367
    Bit bluish, need to fix color balance and texture is not fitting perfectly to shape, so some mapping perhaps need to be done instead of using planar mapping. But for my eye it shows potential for a textured headlight?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 1, 2012
  11. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    I took few photos from brake discs, sadly leaky roof had got them and there was rust, only one disc from backside was partly rust free, but it is bit of work to make it good texture. I did started clone brushing, but GIMP crashed and lost unsaved work. However this is crop that just needs background removed (circle selection, paste as new image, remove colour tool after that, circle selection helps), then some clone brushing and smudge tool to get rid of brown dots or maybe adjusting saturation of some colors could help there a bit, need to experiment with.

    This is just sample:
    View attachment 3389

    This is photo, 7MB PNG:
    http://jtbo.pp.fi/images/rfactor/v300_textures/brake_disc_backside.png

    I did play with simple contrast mask script, figured out that if I invert created mask, I can enhance contrast from selected places, so I ended up with this kind of rear light section:
    View attachment 3390

    Need to take better pic from light cluster and still need to figure out how to do turn signal that goes around rear corner of the car, maybe need to put side picture to another layer and do layer mask with some kind of gradient fill so it overlays rear view nicely, must experiment that a bit.

    Zero skills texture editing, but maybe I can manage somehow, good photos are helping, but taking those photos is not very easy, avoiding reflections and distortions cause several attempts needed for photoshooting and overcast days preferably.
     
  12. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    I took picture of white brick, this might work as cement road surface or something like that, seamless tileable 512 texture, I have 1024 version too, but need to upload it. Also took photos from instrument cluster, but seems to be best if I scan gauge facials, then photograph needles separately, much less mess that way.
    View attachment 3406
     
  13. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    I spam this video here too, for some reason mapping gets messed up and car uses wrong skin in replay mode, also headlight textures are wrong etc. Also I have no idea how to turn menus off when recording replay + my computer sucks so that fps are really low, but at least sound came ok this time, also it is not completely slideshow kind of video.
     
  14. Golly

    Golly Registered

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    In real life if you could get that to drift your a legend lol...musta wet the pan for the circle work hey ? ;-) Do they race these IRL ? Thought I saw a vid somewhere.

    Good to see the work coming out for rf2 guys. Looking forward to the fun ahead for sure
     
  15. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Actually, in UK one of the popular beginner drifter cars, you just yank handbrake and floor it or so one drifter told me, never really tried that myself, I value my cars too much :D

    However this one had 2.5l 16v turbo charged Volvo redblock engine, dyno paper from real engine which from I have create this engine is 278ps 418Nm, can't wait turbo engine model to arrive with Formula 2 :p

    Also car sits lower than standard, has race suspension, brakes from F1 car, actually front suspension is from F1 car too, I could not remember which box it had originally so I put Quaife sequential box in it with close ratio gearset they offer for Volvo gearboxes, tires themself are from ISI clio, which is roughly same weight.

    Quite different from original really, mostly it is based on real cars that are built by Peter at Sweden.

    He shares some of his fun at youtube:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/zykloon
     
  16. Golly

    Golly Registered

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    Well bugga me.. what a little beast. Watched a couple of vids. He did drift that sucker!! hahaha.... nice work mate.
     
  17. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    You there got only 360GLT which was most powerful, around 115hp, here is video of some dude in UK drifting his 1.7l 340 model which had 87hp if I don't remember wrong, when it is wet, anything is possible of course:


    Here then is baseline model with 1.4l engine, this model has 50:50 weight distribution so able to do that is just impressive, be wet or not.


    Most powerful Volvo redblock engine I have made is around 500hp, car is close to GT1 car levels with that, but motor is barely usable because of turbo power curve and rF NA engine characteristics, it is wait, wait wait, OH MY G**! I wonder how that works when turbo model comes and there is added turbo lag, I suspect that power spike does not come so immediately, but bit more progressively at higher rpms, of course lower rpms are even worse then, typical problem when relative small motor is putting out around 200hp/litre.

    There are few very underrated car models and I think this is one of them, car is surprisingly capable with some modifications.

    Oh yes, zykloon's white car had no turbo on those videos, naturally aspirated 8 valve Volvo redblock, just shows to how turbo is not always needed to make car go.

    In mod most powerful NA engine is Volvo EVO ~2.9l rally cross motor, puts out bit over 300hp, made from real torque curve naturally.

    I do plan of course to make all standard versions too (even the slowest, diesel version, but I don't know what use it will have), but as always graphical side is bit of an issue.
     
  18. Axly

    Axly Registered

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    The Volvo redblock EVO engines are built by a local company "Motordesign", I've been there and watched them bench some of the beasts, and they are thoroughly impressive. Last time they had a 2 valve redblock at 3.2 litres putting out over 350 hp. (no supercharger, no turbo, just an optimised top with great flow.

    Here's a good example of how nice an old Volvo redblock can sound ;)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG1IkXzXhmU
    Claus, who owns and races this put a 2.5 liter 2 valve Volvo EVO-engine in it to comply with regulations, and according to him it revs 9000+ and puts out 270+ hp. Sure, it's not a 3-series Volvo, but it's the right engine, and no turbos or supercharger.
     
  19. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Results from Zolder, MX5 (Miata) vs Volvo 360 Cup car
    http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1986917&perclass=1

    Here is results from Mid-Ohio, track that is available for rFactor
    http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=385341&perclass=1

    I drove 1:52.8xx with Cup car I have been making now, my driving is just not perhaps the best of standard, but it should be relatively close, so much real world data has gone in and as I use ISI's Skip Barber tires as a base which are quite direct competitor to Toyo R888 which these cars really use, that I don't think it can be too far off now.

    Car is quite ugly, would need graphics rebuilt, so hoping to get someone to help with that, but test what laptimes you get at Mid-Ohio and how it feels for you?

    Brakes are incredibly strong, I have calculated them using Knut's brake calculator, brakes are measured from real car + verified from Factory's documents and that is how they came, front brakes that is, I still need to crack how to calculate drum brake torque, I have information but science is lot harder to read compared to english...

    From big things, suspension travel is one that needs work, then there is those tires from Skippy that I need to adjust a bit, it is now bit too forgiving, also some refining for PM file, then there are various small values, inertias mostly that need to be set properly, however effect of those to driving feel should not be too great, but I hope nothing major is off anymore.

    Car has no power steering so it is bit stiff to turn with grippy tires, wheel should be very difficult to turn when stationary, but rF2 default FFB method relaxes wheel when stationary, changing it to friction based might help there, setting was in PLR file.
    Anyway 1.00 FFB with 106% from logitech control panel when using G25 is giving close to proper feedback when driving.

    900 degrees wheel turning is required, less would be cheating, steering ratio of real car is bit slow, however with Cup car alterations it is not quite that bad as without them.

    Braking at corner will get you sideways, I have experienced this first hand, it is like snap and you are sideways with street tires, when brakes warm up it will be better as rear drums expand and loose power, up to 20% because of that effect alone + brake friction material Mu reduction with heat and that is what I have attempted to re-create, still WIP.
    Front discs are solid and thus there is some amount of brake fade involved. First one or two laps bit easier, then one can start pushing.

    Shocks might be tad too good, reducing rebound might give more accurate results, but they were calculated up to Koni's recommendations for custom valving, might check those again at some point though, car should be tad bouncy when hitting kerbs hard.

    I keep my FOV at 35, don't need to look ugly graphics too much, I recommend same to you, but of course can make own choices. I need to record outside sounds at some day, when there is not so much snow coming, but it might be difficult to get any good of them, for now I use inside sounds to outside too, engine sounds are my own making from scratch.

    Graphics are biggest issue with this, imo. Also they probably will kill your performance, I made only 10 veh files as that alone is enough to cause my CPU to run out of power, it does not help that only full details work at the moment.

    Also upgrades from tuning screen might wreck things.

    Despite all these problems, I find car to be quite fun to race, even slow guy like myself can win AI with this and even to be able to race without crashing to AI cars, which is a lot for me :D

    Each is about 32MB in size, first is for dev mode, another is from single player, might work in multiplayer too, multiplayer is unknown to me.
    http://jtbo.pp.fi/tiedostot/rfactor/v360Cup_dev_0.2.zip

    http://jtbo.pp.fi/tiedostot/rfactor/Volvo300.rfcmp

    Many people have liked from rF1 version, I hope that some day rF2 version is going to be much better.

    Current WIP graphics are work of MJ and can't be used with other projects, physics and sounds are open source stuff, mention original author and those can be used, also you can create your own mod but can't use any of graphics in mod, because I don't have permission to allow that.

    That is one reason why graphics need to be remade, so that there would be easy good way to make skins, also possibility to make new mods based on this mod, for example banger racing, drifting etc. but for that person would be needed that is willing to share his work as open source and willing to create graphics for these cars. So with giving possibility to test the car I hope that it might create some interest and I could find such graphic artist for this project.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2012
  20. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Will do some testing tonight on Zolder! :)
     

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