Very strong braking FFB (BMW M2 CS Racing)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by HomieFFM, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Registered

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    Yes I'm noticing the same with the Fanatec DD1, I already adapted to that and I brake way more gentle and early.
    But normaly the ABS in a racing car has the effect that you can brake much later and harder, without locking the wheels.

    The ABS in this car feels much more like in a road car and that's how it probably is in real life.
    At the end only a guy from the develpment team can tell us why it's like that with this car, but I don't know if anyone will show up to answer this question right here. Would be nice though :)
     
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  2. Orzu7

    Orzu7 Registered

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    I doesn't feel like any abs car I've driven. However like Wergilius previously said it really does teach you to back off the brakes a bit. The fact that its extremely exaggerated does make very obvious.
     
  3. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Probably being a sporty car, the abs setup allow some locking in the tires , as it is almost impossible that this condition happen simultaneously on both front tires, I can expect some strong rattling, probably a sign of over driving the brakes.
     
  4. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Yeah I just recently noticed braking FFB is way way too strong, unlike any other car in rf2 or any other sim. I thought recent patch somehow broke it, because it wasn't that bad previously.
    But thanks to this thread I found that "caused" by setting full brake pressure. Lowering to default ameliorates the issue, but when you lock up the wheels it's still unrealistically strong. I didn't have ABS turned on and it doesn't seem to make any difference for me.

    I bought this car for full price mainly because it supposed to have very realistic physics, because was developed with real detailed data from BMW.
    If it's really mostly based on real data, then I guess something must be wrong with rF2 physics and/or FFB engine (at least with regards to braking).
     
  5. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Registered

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    did you checked if you have ABS - support on? Not meaning the in-car ABS.
    I had that accidently activated, that was the cause for me.
     
  6. benborp

    benborp Registered

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    I just got a DD wheel and my first race back was with the M2. Previously I had been able to live with the quirks of the car under braking but the DD was given a serious shakedown (literally). Trying to get workable/drivable rF2/car/wheel settings led me to investigate what was happening more thoroughly.

    FFB data was much better in MoTeC with the larger range that rF2 was able to push out. This meant I could make more meaningful comparisons with other telemetry from the car.

    The typical M2 'brake chatter' occurred when the front suspension was running on the stops. So, in my opinion this isn't a braking issue but a suspension problem. In fact the chatter can be induced without braking by harshly pitching on to the outside front.

    I'm often frustrated that there is no penalty for running many sim cars with unrealistic set-ups that bottom out or run on the suspension stops during critical corner phases. In this respect the M2 works better than any other car I have driven for communicating the harshness of running out of suspension travel.

    The issue with the M2 is that it cannot be set up to avoid running excessively on the stops. This also leads to the contradictory aspects of the cars response to set-up changes. Stiffening the front end and lowering the brake power slows weight transfer, extends the time the suspension isn't under full compression and offers more grip and brake performance.

    Edit: I'm currently trying to find where the limit to suspension movement occurs. It doesn't appear to be at each corner. But something appears to be stopping full range of movement at moderate weight transfers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
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  7. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Yes I have ABS off in both the car and in difficulty/driving assists. I meant didn't notice a difference in the FFB braking behavior with ABS on in difficulty settings. It seems equally bad and I have only T300 and FFB is clipping with full brake pressure. I can only imagine how it feels on SC2 Pro or large Mige high torque settings:)

    Edit: Just checked and yeah, with full ABS assist, at default brake force setting (69%) braking FFB is indeed stronger, I feel it right away, while without it it's only strong at the end (when apparently wheels really lock up).

    But I must say other than that the car feels great.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
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  8. benborp

    benborp Registered

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    Having done more work trying to cut through the overpowering braking FFB, my theory that it was a suspension limitation has proved to be rubbish.

    It's a consequence of the ABS implementation.
     
  9. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    I have no issue with the FFB of this car with T300.

    Driver thrustmaster

    Overall forces 100%
    Constant and periodic 100%
    Spring and damper 0%

    rF2

    Filter 0%
    FFB multi for this and all S397 cars : 55%
    FFB min torque : 3%
    Vehicule set on

    Almost no clippling with any S397 car and FFB seems very realistic for me. Just not enough torquey, BUT ITS A LOW END WHEEL!!!!

    Hope it help.
     
  10. mister dog

    mister dog Registered

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    I've read a bunch of complaints about this heavy rumble under braking already with the M2, I also found out disabling ABS and running a low brake force setting helps to get it to be less intrusive, but it would be nice if S397 could check out what's happening here as it's an issue on many wheels so definitely something odd with the physics of this car.

    I love how it drives though (hence us running M2 races at the moment), but it would be so much better without the heavy vibration under braking and subsequently my wheel would be grateful too for ending it's abuse :p. I'm genuinely worried it would break my base.
     
  11. nolive721

    nolive721 Registered

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    Noticed the same thing with that car but also some of the GT3s like the Bentley for example.
    You guys can confirm?
     
  12. Magus

    Magus Registered

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    The culprit is zero filter. Back in the ISI days, 0% filter was described as 'Raw FFB' by Tim, which I liked (even on my Logitech G25 at the time). It could be a little 'toothy' at times but I grew to like it. This is the only car I have issues with in the braking FFB when filter = 0, I think it needs to be addressed too but for everyone using filters the issue is non existent or minimal & I'm not sure if or when it will ever get addressed by S397 as the recommeded wheel settings for my CSW2.5 includes a degree of filter.
     
  13. mister dog

    mister dog Registered

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    To get rid of the heavy rumble in my wheel whilst braking I had to increase FFB smoothing in the options, FFB smoothing 4 however was not enough, I had to get it in the 10-15 range for the heavy spikes to disappear on my CSL. Depends on wheel to wheel and gain settings of course, but if you experience this rumble in your wheel rim during braking, this is indeed the solution.
     
  14. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I solved the problem just not applying more braking power than it can take. Problem solved without issues.
     
  15. mister dog

    mister dog Registered

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    Half the pedal travel :D

    Is S397 going to revise this car still? Hasn't seen TLC since launch I think and both this bug and the one where you hear constant tyre screech during replays are still alive and well. The car cost a fiver so should be considered premium content right.
     
  16. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Even if it's on their ever growing TODO list it may go on indefinitely
     
  17. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    I haven't tested it but perhaps changing values in your wheel's .json file in rfactor2/userdata/controller.

    Of course it will affect all cars.
     
  18. UGM 133A

    UGM 133A Registered

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    I use a Simucube 2 pro and I drive this car with 0 smoothing and only use some damping in True Drive, yet I don't get crazy vibrations during braking. I feel some oscillation under heavy braking, but it's nowhere near as much force as the curbs or bumps give.
     
  19. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Try increasing brake pressure to above 90%.
    Did you change default SC 2 profile (.json file)?
     
  20. UGM 133A

    UGM 133A Registered

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    I've only ever driven the car with default setup, I'll try with %100 brake pressure later today.

    Technically everyone would change the JSON file when you set your buttons and save a profile from the game. If you're talking about the FFB settings, they're default to the SC2 profile, which may be different from other wheels.
     

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