v1130: Dangerous FFB oscillation/kick on ‘restart race’. Still…

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by MileSeven, Jul 14, 2022.

  1. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    This is still an issue - and a serious one for DD wheel users - particularly in VR…

    Last night we had to restart an online race (using “restart race” from the dedi server panel - not voted in game) a couple of times. When my vehicle is dropped onto the new start grid, the DD wheel goes into wild oscillation - and at 26Nm with a VR headset on, that’s no laughing matter.

    From other reports (and my memories of my non-dd wheels going back a few years), this is not wheel-specific. The only reliable workaround appears to be to punch the DD kill switch as the cars are dropped onto the grid and to only re-enable it once the cars are moving (which is not really viable). The FFB Reset key mapping does not solve this problem.

    Note that this only seems to happen as a result of ‘Restart Race’ - I’ve never experienced it by entering the grid using the Drive button.
     
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  2. DJCruicky

    DJCruicky Registered

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    I had that in the same race as you. I had the 'Synchroning' message displayed in chat window while it was happening. Did you have the 'Synchroning' message in your chat window?.

    Probably unrelated, I did notice a new driver was trying to enter the server at the same time.
    "javier" Is Pending An Open Session".
     
  3. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    I did have the synch message - but I’ve also experienced this issue many times offline too. Always on a restart race event.
     
  4. ThomasJohansen

    ThomasJohansen Registered

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    its a common persistent problem, that the devs probably, could solve by an easy fix. Like insert a delay before ffb activates with every start sessions.
    I have learned to always have a firm grip on my steeringwheel when doing restarts, so its not a problem for me. but why use 26nm?
    You could also argue that the manufacture of your DD, should have a built in safety to not let it go from 0-26nm in a session start.
     
  5. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    ‘Why use 26Nm’ - signal processing / filter theory? In short, if you restrict the ability of the wheel to react (either in terms of speed of response or magnitude), you potentially degrade its ability to reproduce what the sim is asking it to. You might not need 26Nm for more than the tiniest fraction of a second, but to create detail, it can be invaluable.

    In normal use, the in-sim FFB setting per car lets you avoid driving forces getting out of hand - but when the sim goes mad, the per-car setting appears to be ignored.

    It shouldn’t happen, this aspect only appears to happen on forced restarts - it has been reported before many times - and it needs to be fixed. You used to be able to shrug it off in the belt-drive days - we’re now talking avoidable injuries.
     
  6. delapecs

    delapecs Registered

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    +1, happens many times, "syncronizing" and wheel shaking like is no tomorrow. Tried all and the problem persist. It's getting very dangerous with new DD wheels.
    Please Studio 397 take a look on this.
     
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  7. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    Still present in 1130 - easy to replicate on my rig by restarting offline races (i.e. hit escape mid race, select 'restart race', break wrists or elbows).

    Can we at least have some kind of acknowledgement that this has/is being investigated or those affected are/will be reached out to? It's very specific (for me) to restarts.
     
  8. pace_car

    pace_car Registered

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    yes i have the same issue on multiplayer, when i click on the race button, just after the session has been restarted but prior to the session clock has started to count down.
    so i always wait with click on RACE button untill the session clock has started to count down
    (to workarround the issue)

    i dont have a DD wheel (but a fanatec clubsport 2.5)
     
  9. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    Really? This doesn't appear to be wheel-specific (see @pace_car for most recent example!). I'm pretty sure I used to get it with my T500RS as well - but that didn't have the strength to break anything other than into a mild sweat!

    This wheely is a poor excuse!;)
     
  10. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    That’d be fine if it was specific to some arcane wheel setup, but the limited evidence presented in this - and earlier abandoned - threads is that it is not wheel specific and not even DD specific.

    Unfortunately for us DDers, the vast majority of drivers will mostly likely just regard this longstanding issue as a minor inconvenience.
     
  11. yashiman

    yashiman Registered

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    This problem has occurred sometimes since before Build1130.
    Im a server administrator, so I would like to see this addressed, but this is an irregular behavior and you don't expect much for S397.
    My recommendation for server admins is to "/restartwarmup" the race once and return the race to the warmup session, rather than restarting it directly.
    It is not perfect, but it will improve the symptoms considerably.
     
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  12. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    Thanks - as a rule, we don’t restart our online races for love nor money but very occasionally I will. Offline is a different kettle of fish though…
     
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  13. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    My first online racing experience was an email online league. (TPTCC @ theuspits.com) You had to PINKY SWEAR you would not restart any race and then send in your results as soon as you were done. When everyone's emails arrived, the League officials would compare the total time and place the finishers in order. So by Wednesday you usually knew how you had done on Sat. or Sun.
     
  14. svictor

    svictor Registered

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    I can also confirm that this (long time) issue has nothing to do with any types of controller. We had this issue for our whole endurance series from last year.

    It can easily trigger when there is a sudden session change, often happens when there is a direct race restart or full weekend restart. Restart warmup then continue to race would help reduce the chance of this issue.
     
  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Was that on here?

    Definitely not wheel specific in nature/cause, just worse on stronger wheels.
     
  16. delapecs

    delapecs Registered

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    Little reminder that we continue to suffer from this problem.;)
     
  17. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    Still here. See also the ‘slow motion on restart’ thread I’ve bumped.

    On restarting an online race mid session as race admin, I received both the wheel-goes-wild *and* slow-motion-until-lights-gone-green-for-admin-driver-only issues.

    Both are long-standing, both aren’t hard to replicate (although neither occur 100% of the time), both are quite possibly related, both need fixing!

    Please.
     
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  18. delapecs

    delapecs Registered

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    I'm the same as you but since I did this procedure I haven't suffered from the dreaded "Syncronizing" again, try it please:
    Do not use the dedicated server race restart button.
    Instead become admin of the server from the chat window of your client machine by typing "/admin <password>".
    Instead of restarting run, restart warmup, then hit the straight to run button.

    This way it has never happened to me again, but if I press restart race it happens again.
    Don't forget to set the admin mode in the message center settings in Visuals.

    Greetings

    EDIT: Sorry, I saw in another post that you were already aware of this. Greetings
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2023
  19. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    >EDIT: Sorry, I saw in another post that you were already aware of this. Greetings

    Yes, no worries!
    We routinely use the restart warmup workaround to start *new* races through our race evenings, but in testing and offline, the temptation is to use the more obvious ‘restart race’ function. Needs fixing. If it turns out to be another of those “ISI wrote that bit and we don’t know how to change it without breaking loads of new stuff” issues then ‘fine’ - as long as we can have a better “rolls-eyes smiley” for this forum….o_O:D
     
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  20. delapecs

    delapecs Registered

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    Yes, it definitely needs to be fixed. It is dangerous for our fingers and hands.
     

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