Updated Third-Party Palatov D4 1.38 Now Available

djbob said:
The point is how the car behaves at the limit - at the edge of the fastest way to drive the car. It's not about whether you can purposely drive it to mimic one style or another. There should be similarities between the sim and the real world video when driving around the limit and the suggestion that videos are invalid as a comparison is a lazy one.
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What makes you think any of those videos show you the limit?

For example, the Palatov hillclimb win at Pikes Peak was not on the limit. It was clean, it was obviously fast, but it was not on the limit of the car. I dare say that unless you have someone posting videos of themselves going OVER the limit occasionally, it's not worthwhile to say what they do post shows anywhere near it.
 
Which one is on the limit?

 
djbob said:
The point is how the car behaves at the limit - at the edge of the fastest way to drive the car. It's not about whether you can purposely drive it to mimic one style or another. There should be similarities between the sim and the real world video when driving around the limit and the suggestion that videos are invalid as a comparison is a lazy one.
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So many videos show drivers not near the "limit" at all. Someone had the idea to post a vid of a Lola (Howston) at sebring, at a modern day classic meet.
They then brilliantly showed us how the car was so solid, so stable around the track, and that the rf2 one is much too slippery, and very unrealistic.

Ignoring the possibilities that the driver didn't want to wreck his or the other drivers very rare race cars...or kill himself at what was a competitive, but not cutthroat event.

If I removed myself from the sim mindset, it was very easy to drive quickly and smoothly, replicating what looked like the guys video...ah, but of course, he was on the limit :rolleyes:
 
Tim Wheatley said:
I can drive it like a car. Would you like a video? :)

A video isn't going to show you anyone of what a car is capable of doing, it's showing you what that driver did, that day, in whatever way you choose to interpret it. :)

I haven't yet seen an applied physics education curriculum that involves watching youtube to see what you can figure out about the laws of physics. It's disappointing to hear it so often used as a point of reference.

Take the Skip Barber as well... If you like, I can drive smooth as silk. I can also drive ragged as hell with buckets of steering input and too much yaw. Is there a difference in the car? No.
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Yes, you can drive it like a car, of course, but you can also drive it like a Kart.

Maybe the driver in the videos, wasn't really hard at the limit. Also possible the car isn't that easy to catch in a slide. :)
Taking a Youtube vid as a reference to judge physic, isn't the best choice, especially if there is no pedal input shown. But that's best i have here. I know Slow Motion/ISI had precise data of the car. What about the Tyres?
My first thought after the first test drive was, shouldn't a car with such a short wheelbase behave more tricky. Then i watched a few Videos, which reinforced my opinion.
Still think the steering input and reaction of the car, shown in a video, give you a good idea how the car behave. In the Video, you can see some scene which require quick reaction to hold the rear.

IMO the Skip Barber is a lot more challenging, and also more realistic to drive. I can't do those things, which i go away with the Palatov, with the Skippy.

Maybe you're right, and the driver in the video coudn't or doesen't want to drive very hard. While it would be possible to do so.
Still skeptical about this, but i simply cant prove it. :)
 
Eh?? The Skippy is meant to be an arse of a car to drive, these are some very different machines you are trying to compare here...
 
Tim Wheatley said:
What makes you think any of those videos show you the limit?

For example, the Palatov hillclimb win at Pikes Peak was not on the limit. It was clean, it was obviously fast, but it was not on the limit of the car. I dare say that unless you have someone posting videos of themselves going OVER the limit occasionally, it's not worthwhile to say what they do post shows anywhere near it.
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The oversteer in the Pikes Peak video.
 
Minibull said:
Eh?? The Skippy is meant to be an arse of a car to drive, these are some very different machines you are trying to compare here...
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Nobody compared the cars to each other.

What is being compared/said?

That videos where you aren't the driver (or even if you are, but aren't taking a break from your usual real life F1 racing schedule - because 99% of racing drivers are crap compared to the less than 1% who are genuinely spectacular) aren't a place to judge anything about a car. Because if I can drive a single car in two completely different ways, giving two totally different impressions of it, it's a useless medium to use as any kind of example.
 
djbob said:
The oversteer in the Pikes Peak video.
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Which you can replicate in almost any car at any time depending on track dust (at Pikes Peak this is a problem), steering or throttle. Again, tell me how that shows you the car limit and neither of those?

You can induce oversteer easily, if that is your basis for saying a car SHOULD oversteer by default? It's like you're not even taking the driver, conditions or car setup into account at all. Or vice-versa, on anything seen in a youtube video.
 
And please note: Not saying you're wrong.

Just, please, stop using video where there's always some catch for condition, driver, etc, as evidence. :) For ANY sim product.

Hell, even if an F1 driver said the F1 car in a sim isn't realistic, how do you know he likes and/or can connect with sims? :) Remember when drivers were saying sims in the mid-90's were realistic? Does that mean they are better than 2015 products? LOL

If you don't like the car, or it doesn't handle how you'd expect - fine! But that's not what you're really saying... You're saying the car doesn't act like how you've deduced it should drive from a video where you have insufficient information to do so. ;)
 
Tim Wheatley said:
Nobody compared the cars to each other.
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"IMO the Skip Barber is a lot more challenging, and also more realistic to drive. I can't do those things, which i go away with the Palatov, with the Skippy."

My mistake? I took that to be a slight comparison of sorts. So not only video comparisons, but also to very different vehicles.
 
Minibull said:
"IMO the Skip Barber is a lot more challenging, and also more realistic to drive. I can't do those things, which i go away with the Palatov, with the Skippy."

My mistake? I took that to be a slight comparison of sorts. So not only video comparisons, but also to very different vehicles.
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In context, that was because I gave the example that I could give two videos of the Skippy, one smooth, one crazy with lots of steering input. Meaning those videos would give no actual info on the vehicle driving, more on my driving.
 
All I know at Longford that car should " skitter" across bumps and crash, instead it drives around every turn like its a brand new F1 track.

Take a real F1 car to Longford today and see how fast it can stop over bumps without wheel lockups. lol
 
May I say without offending anybody, 2 things?
1. What is really funny is that no one person that wrote here giving judgments about, has never driven the real-world Palatov D4 cars (Trackday or Hillclimb that feel like 2 different cars of course)
2. I'm very happy, sincerely, that this little prototype, also at its second public version, inspires so many comments!

Thank you.
 
Slow Motion said:
May I say without offending anybody, 2 things?
1. What is really funny is that no one person that wrote here giving judgments about, has never driven the real-world Palatov D4 cars (Trackday or Hillclimb that feel like 2 different cars of course)
2. I'm very happy, sincerely, that this little prototype, also at its second public version, inspires so many comments!

Thank you.
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It is a great piece of work no doubt. I'm not able to articulate my opinion over the handling any better than has been said already, and if you are unwilling to accept an opinion from someone that hasn't driven the actual car then I and presumably almost everyone else here are wasting their time by saying anything other than a simple 'well done' or similar.

As for the videos, it is a well trodden and quite boring debate. There are those that know there is sometimes a little, sometimes a lot (never everything) that you can extract from a real life video - it doesn't need explaining it is simple common sense. And there are those that claim nothing in a video can be used as a comparison, who also happen to find it a useful argument to discredit any comments deemed 'negative' (even though the comments may be trying to help make a better product).

So, well done. :)
 
djbob said:
It is a great piece of work no doubt. I'm not able to articulate my opinion over the handling any better than has been said already, and if you are unwilling to accept an opinion from someone that hasn't driven the actual car...
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Wait...maybe it`s my lack of the language, but you don`t have driven the Palatov D4 v1.38 and complains about something wich you never tested by yourself?
 
Not for nothing, but I haven't seen a real life video where the D4 is being pushed to it's limit. Wouldn't it be difficult to compare the sim D4 to the real one then?
 
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