Updated Third-Party Palatov D4 1.38 Now Available

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by 88mphTim, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. aguy0523

    aguy0523 Registered

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    This is the most realistic car that rF2 has and the level of detail to physics is unparalleled in the sim genre. I simultaneously love the realism and despise myself for not being able to drive this car appropriately. I have such a hard time trying to complete a decent lap. Bear in mind I am able to turn a 2:03 at Bathurst with the GTR, so it's very frustrating going slow in the D4. Congrats to anyone who can go fast in this car.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2015
  2. djbob

    djbob Registered

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    With all due respect (and it is a lot of respect - the Palatov is my favourite sim car) - Mr Palatov and employees of the company may not want to truly replicate deficiencies in the handling (if they exist) - so the fact they have had a big role in the development doesn't necessarily make it the most realistic representation. I try to appreciate the amount of data going into the process, but when Mr Palatov says he is sad then I guess you have to start fudging things to make him happy. I happen to agree with TJones, it is a lot of fun but the car is so forgiving I find it hard to imagine the real car behaves as closely to the sim car as you suggest. I haven't driven it, only watched videos so my opinion may be wrong, I am just putting forward a scenario which could have led to the car handling being less realistic.

    Anyway, thank you for the work which has raised the bar in simulation IMO and I look forward to your future work.


     
  3. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    lol the owner did!
     
  4. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead Staff Member

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    No. You should read better what has been said. ;)
     
  5. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    sorry mate

    "I'm sad Marco, but the car doesn't feel like the real one".

    where do I see that denied?

    Personally I'm not a fan of the car anyway real or simulated.
     
  6. Racefreak1976

    Racefreak1976 Registered

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    As far as I know, the owner was actually quite amazed how realistic it turned out. A job well done, I'd say.

    Is completely taken out of it's context. Read again.
     
  7. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    I think a lot of people could pick holes and attack you for your post but I'm not going too, I shall offer a piece of reasoning to do with the bit I bolded, it is this:

    Fact is and yes this is a fact as we all know - Our home PCs do not have enough power to simulate a real car 1 for 1, I don't know but I'd be surprised if even the very best F1 simulators can do that yet. So when you have to peel back the very surface of a car to make it work in a standard everyday PC, with far less computing power, then you have to (*a finger of...) 'fudge' results in order to get the Sim car as close as possible to Reality.
    A perfect example of this is when Slow Motion said: For this version 1.38 I made '28 different versions of the ultrachassis and steering wheel', if we all had amazingly powerful CPUs then he'd probably just have to make the 1 no doubt, but that will unlikely happen for a Racing Sim (see "Game") for many many years.

    So with that in mind, remember that even though you feel it's not like the real thing, the most important aspect is that Mr Palatov does :)

    * damn advert stuck in my head...and now yours too! One for the UK oldies amongst us!
     
  8. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead Staff Member

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    That's cherry picking, out of context. He was describing a development stage, before to reach the V1.0 status which was "almost perfect" and then he produced 28 tuning of ultrachassis to fine tune something it was already good, as that V1.0.

    Try again.

     
  9. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    car still has problem heating up tyres.
     
  10. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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    drive faster...:mad:
     
  11. hexagramme

    hexagramme Member

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    Nope. I've seen nothing out of the ordinary in that regard, at all. The long lasting tires act realistically and so do the much faster wearing racing slicks.

    It all depends on how you drive them. Drive well and there's plenty of heat and grip available to you. Drive even better and you'll make those slicks serve you for many laps with maximum grip.

    EDIT:
    Please read stuff thoroughly before you make such outbursts.
    A thread can derail so quickly when people don't stop to read stuff before they comment...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2015
  12. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    of course you wouldn't the start up screen says rfactor 2! The only way keep th temps in the purple is slide around every corner. Sorry theres something wrong with it.

    This car just feels bland the ffb is flat, doesn't feel like a ISI quality car really.. No disrespect to the creator I appreciate the work, but it just doesn't fit the bill

    great drifting car vo lol!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2015
  13. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    Strange that isn't that what your doing over at the ac forums at rd slagging off the game for issues noone is having but you. Mate practice what you preach for gods sake !!

    Stop making outbursts!!!
     
  14. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    Hi, thank's for your reply.
    I see you put a lot of time and effort in this car and i really dont want to discount your work. There are plenty of positive things to look at.
    The amount of graphical details, the (slightly) uneven surface of the bodywork, working switches etc.

    Unfortunately i cant give you better or more precise feedback as: IMO the whole limit is to wide, not enough dropoff of grip in dynamic friction.
    Just look at some Vids at Youtube: This one: "Palatov at Laguna Seca" or this: "D4 at ORP".
    In the videos you can see the driver make only tiny steering input, car slides a bit sometimes, but not much. In summary, he drive the car like a car.
    When i drive the simulated, i drive the car like a Kart. Smash the car into the corner, sometimes slide throu the whole corner. It's fun of course to drive this way.
    Anyway, probably not your fault, it's not the only car where i think "to easy to handle". :)

    I can post a video of my driving in a few days (lack of time/bandwidth ATM) if necessary.

    To all who disagree, may explain me, why this difference between driving shown in the vids, and those in the simulation?

    Slow Motion, dont let yourself discourage by my or others maybe somewhat negative feedback.
    I have the greatest respect from you and your work. You invested hundrets of hours in your hobby and share your great work with the community. Compared with this i do nothing. Be sure, i'm aware of that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2015
  15. alpha-bravo

    alpha-bravo Registered

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    So mate I think it's enough with your bull**** posts. Please stop it.
    Unbelieveable how ignorant a human can be ^^

    Make your posts in a constructive and kind manner or let it (what I personally would prefer)

    thx
     
  16. djbob

    djbob Registered

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    I agree with what you say - I don't think that goes against what I said, or not what I meant to say. Of course things are being 'fudged' for all sims everywhere - no one can capture and translate ALL of the required data into a 1 for 1 recreation of real life physics, especially when it comes to tyres, so your fingers of fudge are stuck in here and there to plug the gaps. I shouldn't have said start fudging, I should have said adjust the fudge. The point is though that more data can make a better simulation because there is less fudge required - but doesn't always make a more realistic simulation as it depends where you are sticking the fudge fingers. If Mr Palotov wants to stick one in the 'less snappy oversteer' line of code because he doesn't want people killing themselves in the sim trying to catch slides then I guess he will. Does that automatically make it the most realistic? No.
     
  17. djbob

    djbob Registered

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    Agree with all of the above, both 'negative' and positive.

    At first I wondered if the short wheelbase gave the car the unusually kart like behaviour, but the videos suggest it should not be to the extent that it is. But if this is as good as it gets, it's a pretty damn good job all the same, congrats.
     
  18. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    So because someone else does something, you're OK? No.

    The irony of someone saying to practice what they preach, then to stop making outburts, mid-way through his own outbursts, isn't lost on me. :)
     
  19. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I can drive it like a car. Would you like a video? :)

    A video isn't going to show you anyone of what a car is capable of doing, it's showing you what that driver did, that day, in whatever way you choose to interpret it. :)

    I haven't yet seen an applied physics education curriculum that involves watching youtube to see what you can figure out about the laws of physics. It's disappointing to hear it so often used as a point of reference.

    Take the Skip Barber as well... If you like, I can drive smooth as silk. I can also drive ragged as hell with buckets of steering input and too much yaw. Is there a difference in the car? No.
     
  20. djbob

    djbob Registered

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    The point is how the car behaves at the limit - at the edge of the fastest way to drive the car. It's not about whether you can purposely drive it to mimic one style or another. There should be similarities between the sim and the real world video when driving around the limit and the suggestion that videos are invalid as a comparison is a lazy one.
     

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