Tyrrell 008 | 1978 F1

[mantasisg]

Setting up wheels blur. Noticed that I missed few details on the wheels, but they makes life easier for wheels blur effect. It complicates blur that there will be two tread textures grooved and slicks, but I hope that will get sorted. Technically there probably needs to be also soft and medium compound slicks ? Matra mod has them, did they use soft, medium and hard compounds then already ? I think softness of compounds are stupid and should have never been a thing in motorsports, only slick vs grooved makes sense for dry and wet.


Driven by ghost

Thank you, @Endor. I also think 1978 is good idea, I never thought about it, always thought that 1979 was THE SEASON. But then realised that downforce these cars produces were just much too much, and they were too stiff. Then I kept looking at 1978 Tyrrell onboards, and it was just it, I think thats how race cars should drive.

Initially got impulse for late 70s by working on 935KKK physics, turns these cars were very very fun and exciting. I think I could keep stretching up till late 80s, or even reach early 90s when Mclaren F1 GTR topped motorsports, and it never was that great again.


Physics is never ending journey, especially in rF2. Many years are ahead. Fortunately, or unfortunately with the way simracing is these days, I don't see a replacement. I have read they think about rFactor3, but I don't see it being "it" too, unless they hires you know who.

 

[Porsche962C]

@Porsche962C No biggie, you only have to throw down your government.

I hope these shows, I am not used to uplaoding directly to forum. Probably 80-90% finsished where last 10% is other half of the work.

View attachment 56870View attachment 56871View attachment 56872

Hi,

This works, thank you! Thank you for overthroughing the government lol! These images look great , looks like it has come on a lot in a short space of time. How long have you been working on it? Was it done in Blender?

 

[mantasisg]

Thank you. Yes it is quick work with this car, till all the detailing kicks in, then it turns out to be less quick and harder. I started almost three weeks ago, first week was only a hour or two of work per day, as I still had a job then LOL

I am using Blender 3.6.7 with 1060 6GB GPU :/

 

[Porsche962C]

Thank you. Yes it is quick work with this car, till all the detailing kicks in, then it turns out to be less quick and harder. I started almost three weeks ago, first week was only a hour or two of work per day, as I still had a job then LOL

I am using Blender 3.6.7 with 1060 6GB GPU :/

View attachment 56877View attachment 56878

Well it looks amazing in only 3 weeks. I want to learn Blender, new version 5 is released now. Would love to see a full 1978 grid in Rfactor 2 sometime.

 

[mantasisg]

Just start doing it and thats it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_RS01

 

[jimagn]

Are those skirts? And are the tires bias ply or radial?
Love the mods.

 

[mantasisg]

Working right now on physics, taking a break from modeling. Started from March 761. Although plenty of similarities, so much needs to be changed. First of all, I am suspecting that March got set a lot too much downforce. Before I started reducing it, it was driving more like 79 ground effect car. I also find that in March a lot too little drag is applied per wing settings, and there is too much base drag... As downforce in fact usually induces a lot of drag, with some exceptions for front air dams, and ground effects.


@jimagn Yes indeed it was supposed to be a fan car, ground effect at its finest. They tested it to cool radiators through the floor, using turbine upwards, but they didn't achieve proper cooling effect.

I have read in facebook a post from person who worked on this car with Maurice Philippe. And it was mentioned that those Goodyear tires were cross-plys.

I probably have them modeled a bit wrong based on modern pictures, which were AVON tires. Perhaps they have a bit more of a radial look, I should make tires a little bit rounder, especially front tires.

Looking at videos like these, the car after all drove almost closer to how race cars drove in mid sixties, than late 70s and early 80s.

 

[philrob]

@Porsche962C No biggie, you only have to throw down your government.

I hope these shows, I am not used to uplaoding directly to forum. Probably 80-90% finsished where last 10% is other half of the work.

View attachment 56870View attachment 56871View attachment 56872

Lovely, my favourite era, show more photos and updates.

 

[mantasisg]

Difficult physics to make. It was hell past two days. Started with ok handling, but it was just wrong. Much much too twitchy, and not as alive as in videos. On the trip to the more correct handling, I have ruined the physics very badly, but got out of that. Finally started getting somewhere. Of course tyres are always a challenge. Diffuser physics are difficult for me. Also it turns out car responds well to stiff rear suspension vs soft front suspension, something that I didn't anticipate, but I guess you can see from onboard videos that there is compliance at front, and for rear end have to look at pictures, and there doesn't seem to be much of movement.

Days will be spent on polishing details till car drives as realistically as possible, and then the iconic rain dance physics has to be acquired as well, because without that to me simulation of this car would be just sad.

 

[mantasisg]

Slowed down on the model, but can't get myself to slow down on driving and doing physics. It is fast car wow ! Thats what I have to say, it is really really fast. So fast that when I came back to my GT40MK1 1965 and Bizzarrini GT5300 1964 physics, they felt like snails in terms of how fast everything is moving. SO I thought I will continue on T008 for a while, till I will consider good enough as a basis for future work, which is of course will last a long time. Must not forget my goal is to have car as realistic as possible in wet and dry, on same physics.

Today I have done little bit of tweaks to chassis which turned out to have very positive effect. As a result have had to readjust suspension a little, and that also seemed to work out for a positive outcome too, and as well did very slight adjustment for rear aero and diffuser.

Visually car does still seem like rear end is a little low, and front end is a little bit high, so there is probably still something basic to sort out.

One more issue I have, that I also had with 911 RSR, when I use two graphical tire compounds with one of them blur effects doesn't work...

Does these setup options looks good to you, or anything seems off ?

The win of today is that I have got a car a lot more precise, it was playful as it should be before, but it was too imprecise to dance around with it.

Side benefit of this car is that I am starting to feel a lot more confident that I probably could finally get 917K physics right, when you think about it 917K was like 70s F1 car before 70s, just obviously closed up, spaceframe chassis...

Now the car is ready to be tested in main game on tracks which are documented on onboard footage and race broadcasts.

Here is some awesome material combined:

 

[mantasisg]

This is just crap video (hopefully will do better if I do this more times), but you can watch it if you'd like to see current state of physics. Note: I am ill and tired while recording this, and I still was able to drive like this. This being said although I think I am close to acceptable physics, car does seem to lack just a little of precision for the control of it. I am also not yet sure if it is not too fast, might be just a touch too grippy.

 

[Nicola59]

Aren’t tyres too cold, even after some laps?

 

[mantasisg]

Aren’t tyres too cold, even after some laps?

I am not sure. I wouldn't say too cold, but they are not too hot certainly. Temperatures and wear are things that I pay attention later, I focus on main behavior at first, how they slide, how they grip and how it mixes. Of course wear and temperatures has lots of influence to that.

In terms of feel they do feel twitchier and snappier in first lap or two, and on second-third lap they become noticeably smoother and gripping up in friendlier way. I think by third lap with the wheelspins and slides temperatures were alright.

Tire app colors aren't as meaningful as main temperature curve set up in tire physics parameters. Frankly it is almost irrelevant. It is probably better to have a look at brake temps.

Like brake temperature app shows temps of braking surfaces. Tire app shows surface temps, this track has big straights, so therefore less tire heating and more cooling, it helps a lot to have these little wheelspins and drifts in the twisty bits of the track. I don't check tire core temps in garage very often, I think they might be alright.

Tire wear and temperatures will be much bigger problem when adjusting wear and heating for different compounds, right now I only have to blance these aspects for grooved and slick tires.

By the way. I don't know if there even was usage of different slick tire compounds then. I think it probably was, but perhaps they were different per different tracks sometimes, and teams didn't just bring 100 tires for each race weekend.

 

[Emery]

This being said although I think I am close to acceptable physics, car does seem to lack just a little of precision for the control of it. I am also not yet sure if it is not too fast, might be just a touch too grippy.

What I see is good initial failing grip, but the recovery is a little harsh, too edgy. Just my opinion.

 

[mantasisg]

@Emery Yes thanks, I am leaning to that idea too. I might try making small adjustments for how heat fluctuates during slides, tread spring stiffness and sliding adhesion and micro macro grip multipliers at higher speeds might be nice to reduce slightly. All by a little bit maybe, or just some, or just one of those... That is where hours of testing goes... This being said I was also in not the best condition while driving for video, so my reactions definitely wasn't as sharp as they would be ideally, that definitely added up too to not keeping up with the car perfectly well. There needs to be slight bit of discomfort tough, because when phyiscs are made where driving on the limit feels as if there is left zero guessing for the correct angle and throttle input during sliding, then it just doesn't seem real, and is boring after few laps and you never want to drive that car again.

 

[Nicola59]

By the way. I don't know if there even was usage of different slick tire compounds then. I think it probably was, but perhaps they were different per different tracks sometimes, and teams didn't just bring 100 tires for each race weekend.

Anyway….It seems a great project, and I think that all people loving F1 cars, especially those from golden eras like this Tyrrell, will appreciate your work.
Yes…in 1978 there were 2 dry compunds, Hard and Soft, used on demand in different tracks as “slick dry compound”, together with the Wet compound.
Another important thing for these cars from 1978 is that they were using ground effect….probably an important feature for your car physics

 

[mantasisg]

@Nicola59 Yes, I think they can be considered ground effect cars already. Just not on 1979 level. This car was designed as a fan car, would have been the original one, and it obviously has skirts, just not through whole underbody, so I would just make wild guess that it had roughly half or third amount of ground effect comparing to 1979 cars.

It is very tricky to work with diffuser physics, I still have plenty of that left to polish and even learn.

 

[mantasisg]

I have been mostly just working on finding those right parameters to get that amazing handling as seen in the videos. I haven't started from real zero, I have started from March physics. But I have done so much, gone through so many changes and experimenting and testing, that it almost feels to me, as it is work from scratch. I have barely changed anything about engine, but changes got in there too.

Finally today it feels like I have got it there for real, maybe I will feel different next time, I probably will. But the leap forwards closer to target is undeniable. In the wet and in the dry too.

I have been finding lots of bits and pieces that were making this car NOT T008 a 1978 F1 car. Something was still wrong about the tires, and I kept on checking if this or this will do the trick. Interestingly at the end I got the results whe nI simply went back to most basic parameters of static and sliding friction and rebalanced those. It is a little funny how I was looking at various "complex" solutions, and what I had to do was simply to go to check most simple solution available... And it worked.

Also I have to say that there are many tracks in rF2, some are good, some are bad, and some are very bad in terms of how they reveal cars physics. For wet to dry testing my favorites right now are - Donnington, Thruxton and Croft. All paid S397 tracks, but there is something special about them, they just work better than others. I suppose Brands Hatch should belong there too, but for some reason, cars always feels worse to me comparing to Donnington, Thruxton and Croft. I have no idea if they utilised something in those track that makes them so good.... I like ZOlder a lot, but something is weird with grip there, it works differently, there is more tires bite in there than almost anywhere else, and in some case that extra bite is nice, but some other cars gets a hit on driveability because of it.

 

[philrob]

Thanks for your contributions and commitment to keeping Rf2 alive, the car looks brilliant.

 

[jymp]

Glad to see late 70's mods coming, good job, be nice to have 76' 77' 78'