Tyre Temps for Camber on Motec

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jefcam, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. jefcam

    jefcam Registered

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    I read all the theory about the temperatures regarding the inner/middle/outer etc...to be able to set a good camber/tyre pressure setup.

    But found little about the practical aspect of how to do it right.

    My question is this. When/where do you look at your temperatures? After crossing the start/finish line? in mid-corner? corner-exit?

    Different people say different theories and can't cope with the best solution.
     
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  2. Carr

    Carr Registered

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    I personally will try and regulate the temps after a corner once the surface temps have some what stabilised and try and keep the mid corner temps at a reasonable level. I generally find if you can keep those 2 in line then the carcass doesn't get too hot and keeps the overall temps down. In saying that, I do often run minimum pressures as it often ends up with the most grip regardless of what I do with suspension.
     
  3. jefcam

    jefcam Registered

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    only 1 advice?
     
  4. TheGame316

    TheGame316 Registered

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    I was going to reply when I had a chance but Carr has as much of a life as I have(none) and beat me to it.
    I was going to say much the same depending on the vehicle.
     
  5. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    Hi,
    In my view there are a couple of things to be aware of and deal with.
    1) The accepted theory that middle temp should be the average of inner and outer is usually not working in RF2. With a good camber setup# the middle temp will usually be a LOT closer to the inner temp (so a lot higher than average of the others). So if you go chasing those theoretical temps you will end up with too lower pressure or too little camber (or both).
    #This leads to the question "what is a good camber and how will I know when I hit it?".
    My advice is to take an "output oriented" approach. IE what is providing the grip that you want. Change camber, check if that end of the car is better or not (check all 3 phases of the corner Entry, Mid corner, Exit). Make sure you have got some temp into the tyres first.
    This approach is supported by some real life race car tyre guides. So see what works well and then maybe make a note of the temp differentials and bear it in mind for future setups in that type of car.
    2) To your question
    My question is this. When/where do you look at your temperatures? After crossing the start/finish line? in mid-corner? corner-exit
    What happens in cornering tells the handling story. You will get key information in the three phases of the corner. a) Braking/Entry; Is it locking up? b) Mid corner; Which end is sliding more c) Exit are you getting wheel-spin (over-steer).
    There are 3 depths to the temp readings. Surface temp will tell the micro story of the short term events (slides , lock ups). The mid depth will average all that out and give you a more mid term view. The core, longer term view again.
    The tyre temps react quickly in RF2 so crossing the start finish line the temps have changed a lot so IMO it's a little academic what they are.

    Other things to check in tyre temps are the relative temps between front and rear. One end overheating is bad (wear related over or under-steer coming your way soon)
    Also wear rates.
    One thing that is good to do is aim for consistent pressures on each axle outside and inside once hot. The inside tyres (so for example the right hand side on a clockwise circuit) will normally run cooler. So increasing their pressure slightly will cause them to heat more and match the outside tyres.

    So yeah, chasing that perfect temp spread will lead you astray. Your feel as a driver and the lap time delta will give you better feedback.
    I go into tyres a bit here in this vid.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  6. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    In real life, the car stops in the pits, and immediately after, the tires are removed and some guy uses the thermometer to get the temperature information, so what i do is: stop the car 1 pit box before (so my tire doesn't get changed and lost all the information), wait some seconds (around 15 sec) and press esc.

    Another interesting thing is editing the DAMPlugin ini file, to get some extra tires information. There is a tire temp info much more stable than the default info, which i prefer to read on motec.
     
  7. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I use the temperature channel which is quite static. I can't remember which of available ones I refer but checking the telemetry is quite obvious. The other channel which also provides values for I M O side of the tire is too noisy to properly use IMO.

    My goal is to have 15-20 degree temp difference between IO. For equalizing middle temperature you might need to to the opposite of what expected. In some cases increasing pressure helped reduced mid temperature. It would be interesting to see if new improved CPM model helps in this.

    In the future I would like to do more tests using my test track which provides simple and controlled conditions where conclusions are more easily extracted.
     
  8. jefcam

    jefcam Registered

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    thanks for the feedback above, will read later this evening.
    these are my stats after an exit turn 4 in Silverstone using GT3.

    Data inputted in red cells in left hand side only. Then actions are displayed automatically and car on right displays the temperatures for better viewing and marks the hottest part in red
    problems: FL and RL heat is on the outer part.
    problem: FR and RR difference between outer and inner is too big

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    You would be surprised. ;) I would gladly go into all these in depth but sadly no enough time for that right now. I'm just gonna give you this simple advice: Forget everything you think you know, especially what you might have read on the internet or in other sims.
     
  10. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    Not sure if that has helped him much.
     
  11. Juan

    Juan Registered

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    At which values do you edit it?
     
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  12. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    Something like "extra tire info" from 0 to 1
    And in your motec project, you need to change the channels to the New ones
     
  13. Juan

    Juan Registered

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    your excel sheet looks interesting,, would you mind share it , tnx
     
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  14. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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  15. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    I'm my PC now.. so...

    DamPlugin.ini file

    Tyres_1 = 1
    Tyres_2 = 1

    On Motec...

    Substitute all Tyre Temp channels by Tyre Rubber Temp
     
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  16. jefcam

    jefcam Registered

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    I will share today, sorry but missed your post
     
  17. jefcam

    jefcam Registered

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    Then when you press esc you check the temps in rfactor 2 garage or use motec?

    and if you use motec which part of the track you check? straights? mid-corners? exit-corners?
     
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  18. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    My view, can be wrong.

    I take the case of a modern OW (recent FISI 2012 1.68 is working well), in straights due to camber you have higher inner temps, decreasing toward outer.
    As you brake contact patch changes, center and outer temps rise.
    You enter a corner, due to cornering forces (weight transfer, roll) on your loaded tires ( on the exterior side of the corner) outer temps climb and rise higher than center and inner, ideally on corner exit you have a good distribution of temps across tire meaning you have a maximum contact patch, and hence maximum traction when needed.

    Up to now you had to lower ridiculously camber to achieve this on ISI cars, and it seemed that optimal tire temps spread didn't improve much performance (if at all).

    The latest FISI 2012 1.68 (and may be GT3 cars, I didn't try) shows a correct (IMO) distribution of temps across tire on default camber values, I don't know if putting inadequate camber values will impair performance.

    Even if surface temps of tires vary more quickly than depth values, as they reflect instantly temp variations that will slowly reach the inner depth of the tire, so IMO should be used to adjust camber. It is the surface of the tire that interacts with the track and vaporizes when too hot.

    Camber values are not the only ones that affect distribution of temps for tires when cornering (toe in and out, ride height also). A car soft sprung, soft damped, with soft ARB, and low pressures in tires, will heat more the outer part of your tire (more lateral weight transfer, more roll, more tire carcass deformation).

    Hope it helps.

    Cheers.
     
  19. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    Always check the last second, before you press ESC, in Motec.

    Just think in real life terms, most of the categories don't have the F1 technology, the only thing they have is the temperature when the tyres are replaced, so when you hear people saying that the inner temperature should be 10 to 20 degrees celsius hotter, they are talking about this moment.
     
  20. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    My advice: Forget about las second tip. If you have telemetry, use it and don't conform with a 1 second picture. Every track is different and the way temperatures cycle through it is different as well. An average value through the lap should give you a better idea.
     

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