Tyre Growth

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Minibull, May 10, 2014.

  1. hexagramme

    hexagramme Member

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    *whip crack*
     
  2. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    You kidding he called him "clueless" behind his back first.


    wtf ?
     
  3. Empty Box

    Empty Box Registered

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    There is a difference between a negative comment and someone going out of their way every moment to try and spin things.
     
  4. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    I do not think the same as Mikee about iRacing, I like how It works. But I think AC is very forgiving... It's not needed to be a fast driver to drive a car in its limits, you just need to turn your wheel and try to break tire grip, that's the car limit, his suspension and grip working together. And more... A no experienced driver will reach car limits faster than a professional one, because an inexperienced driver will not balance the car correctly and will lose grip earlier, and even easier in a sim because it's way hard to feel what's going on.

    In rF2 you have cars with tons of grip. But you really need to drive fine to make the car works as supposed and find the best grip. You have to care about balance, and is something hard because I said in a sim you can no feel the G force and the car limits.

    In AC you can just punch you brake, punch your wheel, and punch your throttle, and game will not care care balance in the same way rF2 does. In AC you have no infinite grip, but you do no need to care about balance, about car mass to find the optimal grip, or better... you need to unbalance your car a lot to lose grip.

    In other sims you will crash again and again first hours of driving, and it's not because lack of grip, just because of lack of feeling. In AC you do no crash even ignoring this fact, as said, so forgiving. When I gave up with this "sim" was the moment Kunos released the classic F1, Ferrari, first lap, no idea how to drive that beast... And no problems punching my wheel and pedals, easier experience ever, so death. Worst moment was when I go to first nurburgring corner and I have to problems to brake 100% every lap with no fear to lose the car... I'm sure classic f1 drivers had more problems with these cars.

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  5. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    This forum truly is funny. There are clearly trolls around here as has been already proven ; if you think a game is the "worst in sim racing" why the hell would you be here unless you're trolling? But the hostilities go to the ones who are interested in rF2, on guess what? The ISI forum. Wow, who would have thought such a thing. Shame on the ones who praise the tire model on ISI's forum.
     
  6. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    Empty Box, to me, is quite credible... He has changed his attitude to rF2 lately... I get the impression he actually likes it a lot... rF2 has changed a lot lately... So I guess it is justified if he disliked it earlier. I KNOW he has mostly iRacing videos, but at least he keeps his videos where he is racing other titles rather objective, takes the good with the not so good, unlike Inside Simracing they don't have unbiased spectacles on in my opinion and hasn't had it for many years!

    To call Matt/E B clueless or an idiot is uncalled for and incorrect actually.
     
  7. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    Actually, a year ago before the chassis flex update the tire model was the best in sim racing even then. I haven't even done a lot of wcr60's racing since the chassis flex update. I'm not mad about your review, i think it's hilarious.

    Big name sim racers who make money off racing won't go to the best sim. They go where they can make a living. Right now only iracing and gt5 are the games where you can go pro. So a guy like Huttu- would he bite the hand that feeds him? No of course not and I don't blame him. Plus a guy like him who is lightning fast would want to stay away from rf2 because with changing track & weather & tire conditions it'd compromise his game. Sometimes these things are random or a slight miscue can punish you a lot more in rf2 than older static sims. Weather of course is a whole different beast. You either like it or you don't and most who dislike it dislike it because they are no good in the wet. I assume he's awesome in the rain but it does compromise his edge somewhat.
     
  8. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    Wrong thread I think :)

    I don't want to expand more, but I do think that it's important to be very close to the fast people to make proper judgement of the handling. Going over the limit is easy indeed, but that doesn't mean that you can judge if driving on the edge for a whole lap is realistic or not, if you can't replicate such driving with consistency.
     
  9. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Guys. There's enough WRONG information to be angry about without getting angry over someone having a different OPINION. Just disagree with their opinion.


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  10. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Greger can and is fast in anything, actually. But he chooses to focus his efforts. He doesn't race the NASCAR side of iRacing for that reason ( or didn't last time I heard from him about it). And in my opinion he could easily win there too if he wanted.


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  11. hexagramme

    hexagramme Member

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    This.

    I find Matt to be very insightful and very credible.
    Concerning driving techniques, race craft, racing simulations with their pros and cons; he knows what he's talking about, while being objective.

    His change of attitude towards rF2 will be a huge advantage because a lot of people watch his videos.
     
  12. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    Oops, maybe I missed the point a little haha. But the point is I do not agree about the limit. Yes, you need to know how to control the car to have a valid opinion, but no need a be a master (and I think I'm a fast driver).

    You just need to turn your wheel and look at how the car reacts to know if there is something wrong when the car starts to lose grip. I raced only 125cc karts and just few times for now. And just from that I can see where rF2 shines, and other true sims too. It's not perfect? Maybe! But for now any simulator give me the impression to drive a car around the limit in the way rf2 does. From karts, to bigger GTs. The feel to be controlling the car in every meter of every turn, it's just... Wow. You can feel (in some way) what's going on in the car and react in consequence. I can not feel that in most other games who call themselves "real simulators".

    And this is just talking about handling... I do not know if you really tested deeply tire physics, how temperature works in every point of the tire and even internally. How it wears for zones, not just as a grip number, flatspots... How many sims have this, or even tangible plans of implement that? Because a full rF2 race is an experience another sim can not give you, and that's because the tire model.

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  13. Rich Goodwin

    Rich Goodwin Registered

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    I 100% agree. In the world cup events last year on oval (if memory serves) he was every bit as wicked fast as on the road side. The guy really is an alien and I am sure if he were to come here, he would be just as insane.
     
  14. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    Exactly I get told above I must not want want ISI improved . lol ?
    Do any of these people seriously think anything they say negative will have a positive impact on the outcome.

    I think most people like this are just conflicted mate, they can't make up their mind what is best for them.

    It is like the people use the strength of continuing rF and other sim Leagues as some gauge to rF2's popularity in the foreseeable future. It is a ludicrous assumption imo.




    They attack difference as weakness.
    Get Mod is no ones fool. ;)
     
  15. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    I know you can drive fast Esteve, and I do agree with rF2 tire model, I am not discussing this. I just don't agree that there are easy sims, all the sims I've tried are difficult when you have to drive an important amount of laps at very fast pace.
     
  16. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    Of course, even gt5 is hard if you try to beat the best driver, you will need to practice lots of hours because you will not be able to do the same with the car... That's subjective and it's not physics dependent, what it's not subjective is the way a car should react when you do not drive it properly. Is what I'm trying to say. Most people feel attacked when says a sim is easy... And it's not really is easy to be fast, just is easy to simply drive even if you force the car when you are slow as hell. An example of this is the car I hate in AC to give you an example (not attacking AC here), the classic Ferrari f1, with that car you can brake from full speed to zero applying full brake with no problems, and you do not need to be fast to know that is far from being realistic.

    I don't know if you understand what I'm talking about.

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  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Implemented via a simple parameter, yes. But like a number of other parameters, in rF2 it's no longer just an arbitrary multiplier for an 'effect' - the tyre is defined, then run through a number of tests at varying speeds/pressures etc, so while you get things like growth at increasing speed that growth is a product of the tyre construction and composition. Compared to rF1 it's a massive step up, and it makes it harder to mod and to approximate by looking at the files. This is an example of different approaches to the same problem, and why it's nearly impossible to make quantitative comparisons between games/engines and why anyone with any sense should realise arguing about which is better is really a waste of time. This is why very few serious developers talk about how their product is better than others - they talk up what they do, but they don't talk down what others do. Unfortunately there are always 'fans' happy to do that regardless.

    People 'review' the rF2 tyre model by driving a car and judging how it drives, based on their own expectations based on who knows what. Throw a real driver on the sim and they won't have much more of a clue because they're missing a lot of the inputs and feedback they'd get in a real car. I think it's difficult not to be impressed by what we can see the rF2 model achieving, but we can't see everything it's doing and making comparisons to other games is really a fruitless exercise. And anyway, we know rF2 does a lot more than rF1 but some rF1 mods feel great and some rF2 mods feel terrible.

    The model is great, and this thread highlights one aspect of what it does.
     
  18. F1Fan07

    F1Fan07 Member

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    Yeah, it's laughable to assume that Greger would be compromised by dynamic racing features. I doubt that man is slow in any sim. He'd probably also kick out asses in Forza, Mario Kart and Grand Theft Auto.
     
  19. Golanv

    Golanv Registered

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    Illusions of Greger and alike are just so funny. Its like Tom Cruise and Scientology.
    They have same the cereal in the mornings, play the same sims as y'all do, and like/dislike them for the same reasons as well.

    AC, rF2, iRacing, the top trio of the "next gen" that really dont feel all that different from one another... more the merrier I say, hell with the reviewers and their petty beefs.
    This infinite arguement of which is the most realistic and has best this, that and the other thing... gonna solve it here in this thread are we?

    Like I said in these forums I believe it was, sim journalism is not for everyone, and to be reviewing the product objectively seems to be as rare in this neck of the woods as it is around rest of the competitors.
    All have their goods and bads, but to get any rational arguements out of anybody in the ranks of sim journalists these days seems to be mission impossible. (too much of the good thing I suspect, nobody reinventing the wheel anymore, things tend to get boring when nit picking)
    Devs are surely not going to help, unless you are talking to the marketing department, its all mystery and "yes we have that" or "no we dont need that".
    List the damn features, facts, whats modeled and how in detail, then let the voltures out with their opinions and mushy crap.
    I know that none of this temper tantrum, chewbacca theory defence, sim expert crap will ever go away, but maybe, just maybe it would atleast cut the numbers down of these yesmen/women around the articles and reviews.

    Tyre deformation... cool, saw that in the first video I ever watched about rF2. I wish the replay/trackside cam would get some loving attention, watching races *Thumbs up*.
    Tyre model... I'm guessing WIP and like someone mentioned, will be changing in feel over time.
     
  20. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    Yeah, I'm sure he is. My point is, that in a static sim where he can run the same lap over and over (in older sims) a guy like him will retain the maximum advantage. A changing track/tire/weather condition is a changing element that can take away from someone's raw speed. I have no doubt if he came to rF2 he'd be very fast. Plus also, there's no professional sim racing associated with rF2, so there'd be no reason for him to play.
     

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