TS-XW FFB Question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nieubermesch, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Sorry if it's the wrong sub forum, but I am not finding a lot online about my questions.

    I had a T300 wich when maxing the FFB forces, the two I had, the base/motor would produce this sort of humming sound, wich I think after hit, one would experience some loss of force when turning, like one would get max force, and when it, then afterwards the motor would be still at 100% but not so strong. I am pretty sure its common to all t300 wheels.

    Now, I have bought a TS-XW, and I am experiencing that, the problem is, it seems that force when reaching max force, feels as strong as a T300 for me and probably one should try to stay bellow the point of clipping and lesss global forces on TM panel, am I right?

    Sorry if I didn't communicate my question well, but it does make sense to me that maxing forces on the global panel and then having clipping is a bad idea as at peak it will actually feel weaker, because of some sort of hardware constrution on the motor.

    Thanks.
     
  2. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Maxing out the power of a wheel by using 100% is not often recommended here. Either reduce the wheel's setting or in the rF2 menus, reduce each car down to around 75%. Clipping is a sign you are exceeding the wheel's ability to process the entire ffb signals being transmitted to the wheel. I had the 1st version of your wheel, the TS-PC and I never got that problem you are describing, but I never ran the wheel at full power either. Good luck researching this, I hope other users may have more information that will help.
     
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  3. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yeah, thanks for replying. I used the T300 at 100, because it boosted the lower forces more, but I know I was getting some clipping at times. Now I havr to fiddle around and see where that place is that I don't get that fall off effect I am describing, since it's bigger then the T300 feeling. I'll have to test with ACC or something, to get a feel for the wheel with the built in FFB meter.
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Yep, if you run the wheel at max and 1.0 FFB Mult in rF2 (which will produce non-negligible clipping) the motor will heat up, the fan will kick in, and the wheel will reduce the power automatically (at least in my experience with the default T500 fan).

    I recommend running the wheel itself on 100%, but then eliminate all but the most extreme (and useless) clipping by setting car specific FFB mult in the game to around 0.70. At the moment there's no built-in way to check the level of clipping with each car (I imagine simhub can do that, or you can use a telemetry addon to check after the fact) but that should be a good starting point.
     
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  5. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Thanks for the reply Lazza. Yeah, I know about the fading phenomenon that occurs after some time of extreme use, but I mean is really the force and humming sound that occurs when we go past a soft lock on the wheel, wich in the TS PC racer isn't really the max force it can produce like it was on the T300.

    I heard it's better to use around 75/80 master gain on TM panel though, because of the linearity and that the peak maximum force wouldn't actually be much more if one would compare 75 to 100, but I can't be sure. What I can be sure is that after reaching the wheel peak at 100 and clipping, is that the forces like at 99 or so are higher then the immediate moment when one clips at 100 and probably is just a safety feature. Wish I couls show this.

    If anyone has the Ts xw/pc I would like to know if you feel the soft locks also don't really represent the full torque the wheel is capable of. Thanks.
     
  6. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I've never agreed with the whole linearity argument, I think it's built on an incorrect interpretation of the default setting and the WheelCheck program that's been around for years that measures free wheel speed/movement with varying inputs - and in my opinion doesn't reflect what you feel when you're actually holding it.

    I think the reason the wheels default to 60/75 is that many games have quite a bit of clipping, because for the majority of people stronger forces feel better, and most gamers are using logitech wheels at best (so not very strong forces). If you assume most games will have a lot of clipping, it makes sense to set the default force lower. With the T500/300 it'll still be as strong as the logitechs at that level, and feel a lot cleaner anyway. Running at 100% in the control panel definitely produces noticeably stronger forces, and the actual constant force tests I've seen over the years support the idea that 100% doesn't introduce any internal clipping or saturation of the force - the motor still ramps 0-100% across the range.

    Any chance what you're feeling might just be a perception thing? Once you hit the soft-stop you're obviously pushing against it, so then it's just the 'current normal' - very different to running along with 40% output and then you get a jolt at 90%. Might be difficult to be sure without actually testing it with a gauge or set of scales.
     
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  7. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yeah, I considered that, and I am also feeling some part of it might be RF2 loss of grip in some corners, that at certain ammount of FFB even without clipping and dependent on some cars, feel a little less "rubbery" (some newer cars for me by S397). I feel the difference and I am trying to adjust the TM panel and I also seen that argument around for the wheelcheck program, so I might as well just go by feel, and since TS PC racer has much better cooling, I think 100/95% is much safer.

    About the soft lock, I can't be sure. Wish I had the T300 to compare still, but its sold.

    Anyway, it's a significant upgrade from the T300, I guess I was just expecting more from the supposed added 2 Nm when it came to peak force. It might even be that since I probably am using different muscles I am not really feeling the difference in force so much, but its there and certainly feeling the arms getting tired.

    Thanks for the time :)
     
  8. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Oh well, its really part of what I suspected. Even at 30% on RF2 I can experience the washing out of granularity when slipping on some cars. So it's not really about the wheel then and I definetly can stop thinking I am just going past the wheels limits most of the time.
     
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  9. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Ok, I tested with SimHub and I was definetly clipping. Weird that with the T300 I think I had to have the FFB higher. Probably was just clipping and didn't really know the feeling of it, as corners really get high g forces, even more when trail braking and coasting at turns to turn more.

    Though the TS would be sort of a final station for me, but I guess I might need me a not so strong direct drive in the future :confused:;)
     

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