Traction Levels Between Sims

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vegaguy5555, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. QUF

    QUF Registered

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    Enable dev apps and use the suspensions app. You will see tyre temperatures like this (http://imgur.com/a/EK4Nq) if you think the default tyre app is too simplistic.
    The purpose of the default app is to help the user identify the condition of the tyres and when it reaches the optimal range of grip.

    Now that you saw the images I uploaded to that link you noticed the raw colors don't tell the user much in relation to the car, so that's why they created a user friendly tyre app, to be aware of the wear, pressures, temperatures, and grip state through the simplified colors.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
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  2. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    ok, will try that.
     
  3. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    lol, i did the same, watching him drive he made that lap time look simple, i didn't think he was pushing and getting 1:11 - 12's but my first few flying laps i was in the 14's, haha. After his slight adjustment i got 1:12xx but that was it.
    What wheel is he using, i wonder.
    He mentions "Aliens" , is he one?
     
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  4. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    IIRC, most of the Kunos team uses Logi or Fanatec wheels but, I can't say I know what Aris uses specifically.

    Regarding lap-times - yeah, I couldn't match his time either. I thoroughly enjoy watching his videos though. :)
     
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  5. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Yeah, he made it look easy hey.
    Yes it is good to watch.
     
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  6. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    I got down to a 1m 11.777 with just tire pressure adjustments, taking into account his second video regarding gear changes I reckon a 1m 11.5xxx is possible. I'm far from being an alien to!
     
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  7. mrsmr2

    mrsmr2 Registered

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    Aris uses a G29
     
  8. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Welcome to my world. :)

    Cranking the wheel and scrubbing wheels over the asphalt or locking them has allmost not impact on tire temp and it's allmost neglectable. Best example is Blachimont or Eau Rouge. When you do that kind of stuff in rF2 you can be sure that your tires are toast within a few laps. To some extent I have the feeling that rF2 behaves a bit too extreme in that regard, but atleast tire management is a thing. The rubberband feeling is something else that I find wierd. But so be it. I still think that AC has come along way from where it started, but there is alot of stuff left to be done that I would like to see them fixing/adding before they proceed onto AC2 to make the money I spent on DLCs worth it. Currently I mostly spent all my time with hotlapping as the AI is useless on my favorite tracks and the online etiquette is terrible.

    On the driver training videos: I think they show some good techniques, but what I miss a bit is the emphasis on consistency. It took me something like 15 laps to get at his time in a car that I've never driven and I don't consider myself a good driver. His lap was good and the stuff that he explains is something you should keep an eye out naturaly though.
     
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  9. QUF

    QUF Registered

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    Tire management is not a thing in AC? Why people talk without testing.

    I recorded a video now to demonstrate a bit what happens when you're careless. The only thing I turned off was ABS. Unfortunately I'm using a gamepad at the moment because my G27's throttle pedal has too much dirt and dust inside that it registers the pedal without touching it (can't clean because not the right drivers and some of the screws are worn), so is not good for driving sims now, maybe it wouldn't have mattered much for this video.

    You can watch the entire video, is short. But different things happen with the car so, watch.
     
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  10. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Ahh yes , now i see my problem , i only did 14 laps .:p
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  11. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    I'm not sure we all have the same AC because reading here people say tyre temps are nothing in AC but my temps move around just like this vid indicates .
    For me ,Cold tyres = ice and 1-2 reasonable laps to get em hot and they drive pretty alright .
    Again for me the biggest prob with AC is AI . Of Course it needs lots of other things but atm hot lapping is pretty good .
    But if you check my Steam play time , AC doesn't get a look in .
     
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  12. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    Something has to be off with AC when there are statements completely opposite of each other like this!

    I have to 'like' both these comments because 'joke' is the same word my friend used when he drove AC last.

    The tires are melted in the front all the time. No amount of laps change this.

    I can clearly feel the tires melt in rF2. If you watch the Cobra in my video you can tell when it gets greasy while AC has the same ice slide throughout in the comparison video.
     
  13. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    What video are you guys referring too? I want to try this.
     
  14. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    When challenging the 'Jim Clark' time I noticed outside weather temperatures made a difference but that was all. Tires stayed the same on every lap.
     
  15. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    What makes you believe that I haven't tested it? For your information: I have tested this phenomenon at Spa with the Mazda 787B for several hours, driving 2+ hour stints allways having an eye on the tires, testing medium and soft tires. 20 seconds into your video you crank the wheel through Eau Rouge with more than 90 degree lock and allmost nothing happens to the temperatures, especialy the surface temps of the front tires. Try that in rF2 and you can be sure that your tires will be toast after you did that for 5 laps. Not to mention that your spin did allmost nothing to your rear tires, except of getting them into their optimum temp zone. In rF2 you would need to pit :D

    The 787B has no assists, so you can be sure when the tire scrubbs, it's going to get very hot in theory - front or rear. Don't get me wrong: I never said that tire temps don't play a role in AC and AC has come a long way in that regard. But compared to the rF2 tire model it is still as if you are driving on a lifeless brick and it is very simplified, comparable to rF1. You for sure get away with stuff in AC, that you can't pull in rF2. The topic of tire management is more than getting out of the pits and the tires up to temps. Your video actually highlights alot of the stuff that I mentioned as issues - aka moments when the tire is under extreme load (lockups, extreme steering locks, spins) aren't punishing you enough. This shows you what I am talking about. It's the old tire model and from the time when rF2 was a beta. Still better than what we have in most sims today:

     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
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  16. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    Ok! I found something very interesting in Pcars. 'Sensitivity' has more than one meaning I found. In my Fanatec v2 wheel it means steering degree angle. But in Pcars it means less steering input (rubber band). They also have the same settings for brakes and fuel. You guessed it. When I turn sensitivity to 100 on brakes I get the classic AC ice skid. That's because the peddle is now an on off switch. Now the question is, does AC have a setting like this? And what do they call it?

    Sensitivity is good for brakes and fuel but not so good for steering. Now I have zero rubber band in Pcars.:)

    I'm guessing 'rubber band' steering is turned off by default in rF2? Is there such a setting? And if so, what does rF2 call it?
     
  17. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    Remember when comparing the tire models that the dynamic track surfaces in each sim have an influence in how you feel the car, sure there may well be discrepancies in heating in both models for all we know, but the track adds to what the tire is telling you. The way I see it is that RF2 has a far more advanced dynamic track than that of ACs, so we're gonna feel difference in that regardless of the tire model, if both models were the same they'd still feel different because of the rubber on track. That's where RF2 (and iRacing) excels and makes the whole experience of getting the tires up to a working temp that much more pleasurable for me, AC with its simple dynamic track doesn't have that affect on me, it feels like hot lapping on a slightly advanced static track.

    Personally I'm not that bothered about the technical aspects of a tire model, if Kunos has one way and ISI/S397 another with iRacing a 3rd way I couldn't give a stuff! It's the experience of driving a car and simply enjoying the game for what it is, at the end of the day comparisons are nothing more than people trying to tell themselves which one they prefer - not which one is "best" ;)
     
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  18. QUF

    QUF Registered

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    Lets see this by parts then.

    "20 seconds into your video you crank the wheel through Eau Rouge with more than 90 degree lock and allmost nothing happens to the temperatures, especialy the surface temps of the front tires."
    At second 21 for the front left tyre it was IMO 38-36-36 -- I steered 90º (it wasn't more than 90) into Raidillon -- at second 24 after I got the steering straight again the IMO reached 59-54-54. This to you is nothing happens to the temperatures?

    And are you really saying that steering 90ºs in a corner gets the tyres toast after 5 laps? Then rf2 really must exaggerate temperatures and you never watch how much steering happens in real life racing. Many corners at Spa with a GT3 car require you to steer 90ºs or more, so you're telling us that in real life they pit 5 in 5 laps at Blancpain GT3 races?

    Look at Jorg Muller toasting his tyres constantly steering 90ºs or more. /s


    "Not to mention that your spin did allmost nothing to your rear tires, except of getting them into their optimum temp zone."

    That wasn't such a long slide, but the rear tyre that got the most stress (rear right) quickly went from 65 to 100 in terms of surface temperatures. The core temperature of that tyre went more slowly from 65 to 78. That didn't seem abnormal since the surface temp didn't stay high for long so there was no reason for the core of the rear tyres to go crazy high, unlike the front tyres which were already quite high even before the slide.

    Turning the steering wheel 90º in a GT3 car doesn't actually turn the tyre 90º. This isn't a 1 to 1 ratio, far from it, so there's no reason for temperatures to skyrocket when steering 90º in consecutive corners. Spa is a circuit where GT3 cars steer 90º or more in many corners and they don't pit 5 in 5 laps because of high temperatures from simply turning the car normally.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  19. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    I agree with all but the iracing quote about getting the tyres upto temp,you are fastest on your outlap in iracing,and lose time on your first lap when comparing sectors,it's a steady increase in time from the outlap,even expecting to go faster as the fuel burns off doesn't happen.
    It's been made worst since the last update
     
  20. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    Yeah to be fair I've not raced iRacing recently, but their dynamic track is still more advanced than others...or so they lead us to believe :p
     
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