Traction Levels Between Sims

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vegaguy5555, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    The field of view should be near perfect in AC because I use VR and I just change hight and pitch with the triple screens.
    Of course I can't do that in rF2 yet. I feel like I need to pitch up a little and then lower height but I can't figure out how to change pitch in rF2?

    With AC I can't drive as hard because of front axle has less traction then the back even though I'm spinning the back tires. Even then I'm locking up the front tires when I need to slow into a corner you can hear squeal into some corners. If you watch closely you see the car just slides through flat and straight where the rF2 car bits and cause the car to come around.

    rF2 has a better predictable traction balance and I can clearly feel the tires lose traction when melting the back tires while the front tires still grab.

    This is missing from AC entirely.

    That's what I think I have wrong with my rig for AC. A LUT generation may fix it but I'm too busy driving the crap out of the Cobra in rF2 right now.

    I fogot to state that both cars are stock.

    I made these videos to make a traction point not practice 500 laps and post my best 10 coners. I just drove both cars as hard as I could without crashing is all. The rF2 car looks and felt much more realistic to me.

    One other thing to take into consideration is I have years of practice driving the Cobra in AC while only the last couple of days driving the Cobra in rF2. I don't think I even went around the Nordschleife two dozen times in rF2 with the Cobra yet?

    Guys in AC cept telling me I need to learn how to drive but I refuse to learn how to drive a video game.

    rF2 is the only simular I can get behind the wheel and use my past four decades of driving experience.

    The bottom line is, which sim would you guess I have over 1500 hours in?
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  2. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    This seems to contradict what I've read concerning LUT; it's meant to make the FFB profile / output more linear for use with lower-performance wheels; Direct-drive wheels FFB is already linear - especially the OSW. o_O
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
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  3. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    What ever it is it seems to me that the two sims are built from different point of view of driving in mind.

    I come from a violent driving past of V8 Vega's with standard steering. And when I hit a curb with that car you knew it. I drove those cars hard, not much less then the rFactor 2 video. Driving rFactor 2 takes me back to those days. rFactor 2 with the Cobra is the closest thing I can compare to my V8 Vega's raw power and rush. I think AC is more refined European, high end GT race car, which is not wrong just different.
     
  4. traind

    traind Registered

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    I just posted something similar in another thread but I find the street legal cars are much better feeling in AC then the race cars are. I am not sure what causes this, perhaps the Slick Tire model or something in the suspension of the race cars that is making them feel less lively and connected to the road. My experience with the street legal cars is quite different. I find them to be nuanced, good feeling and a lot of fun to drive. I have spent a lot of hours hot lapping the street-legal sports cars in Assetto Corsa.

    We also have to remember that between the settings in the software and the extreme variability in Hardware there is a a very large set of variables that makes comparing our individual experiences very challenging. Add to that our personal preferences based upon some combination of real world track experience and Imagination and it is almost like we are speaking a different language to each other in a thread like this.
    I am glad to own both RF2 and assetto Corsa because each has their strengths which the other lacks a little bit of.
     
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  5. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    People have to remember that every sim is just the Dev teams interpretation of their understanding of physics/and how tyres handle.
    Niels said that if what actual real data they get for tyres,which is very very minimal,truthfully all gets thrown out because either it doesn't work at all in the varying tyre models,or renders an experience that undrivable,and so it has to be tweaked until it works,and by then it's so far from the real data that's it's anything but.
    Otherwise known as fudging,makes me laugh the replies I get when i say this on iracings forum,they actually believe everything is made only from real data without any fudging at all,sad
     
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  6. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Maybe it's the hardware I'm using but, the Race Cars in AC feel really good IMO, the main differences being tire grip levels, turn in, improved response, etc.

    Regarding RL data, it seems that the Porsche cars in AC brought new levels of performance data because I feel they convey FFB and car-handling at a higher level than most of the other cars in AC. Kunos stated that the cooperation with the brand provided excellent information far beyond others for them to work with and it seems to have made a difference.
     
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  7. Mr_Mints_Taboo

    Mr_Mints_Taboo Registered

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    Heretic!
    The Iracing Tyre Model is 100% accurate and real, and now they have upgraded it, it is even more realistic and accurate. This is because Iracing also uses a Surface Model which is 100% accurate and real, and now they have upgraded this, it is even more realistic and accurate.
    If you can't feel this, then you are obviously a bad driver!

    To be fair, the latest tyre/surface model is better for me; I can catch slides easier so I have more fun*. But I have never driven a race car, or raced a normal car.

    I am totally OK with Devs fudging stuff, as long as I am having fun.

    *More fun than on the previous 100% accurate and real model.
     
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  8. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    It's comments like this that makes really believe I have something messed up.

    Thanks for the verification!
     
  9. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Shift + FOV buttons should adjust seat pitch.
     
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  10. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Some differences are understandable given the following:
    • FFB is very subjective (I know, hello Captain Obvious!).:)
    • Different steering-systems and the gap between them is pretty vast.
    At the end of the day, we have to settle on the best FFB our system can provide; all hardware has it's limitations and perhaps you are wanting a bit more - especially with AC but, there should be little doubt, rF2 FFB is awfully hard to beat and different titles do favor certain hardware from my experience.
     
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  11. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Lol
    Completely agree,as long as it gives a fun believable experience I don't care how the devs go about it.
     
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  12. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    I agree on the second. I would dare to say that in general FFB controllers don't seem to have even undergone any calibration procedure.

    They simply have to reproduce the received FFB input into torque. In general when these devices are reviewed, none of the reviews talk about this. Probably, because they have no idea how to determine this.

    I have said about a thousand times that the torque in the steering shaft is just another physical magnitude in the simulation.

    Saying that FFB is subjective is pretty much saying that tire loads are subjective. It demonstrates your lack of knowledge in physics and simulation.
     
  13. David Wright

    David Wright Registered

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    No it isn't.
     
  14. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    lol , I asked Niels (a physics Guy)(probably one of the most respected) from AMS to share his FFB settings with me and his response was that FFB was to subjective and that his preference would probably not be the same as mine .
     
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  15. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    Yes it is
     
  16. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    Please explain to me how when you get into a real car the FFB is not objective. Which parameters can you touch? Maybe ask Niels since he is physics guy...

    I have never heard a real driver complaining about having a poor or unrealistic FFB.
     
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  17. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    You guys both bring up a good point. Sim driving is fairly new to me when comparing 3 decades to three years of sim driving.

    Thinking back, different guys would prefer different cars for sure. Although we could not have all the cars we have in the sim world. You were stuck with one car for years and were pretty happy to have that.

    FFB was not a topic. But now we are questioning what is real?

    I know one thing for sure is I can't lock up the brakes as easily in a real car the I can in AC.
     
  18. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    You are taking FFB completely out of the context of "Simulation", it certainly is subjective in terms of our perception of how it relates to reality but, it's not reality - just an interpretation of it through quite an imperfect algorithm. All of the advanced FFB hardware manufactures have talked about current FFB API limitations.

    Even if they could make FFB 100% realistic - how useful would that be for Simulation without having proper Geforce effects to provide "seat of the pants" feedback we have in RL driving?
     
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  19. rer8

    rer8 Registered

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    I noticed this discussion and wanted to share a post that was made and developed early in the life of rFactor 2. I have followed this guidance and have found it to be useful. As everyone clearly understands, this is a simulation, but real life logic and techniques apply. So here is a link and a recommendation. https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?posts/872611/
    If this little book is not already in your library you may want to consider getting it. "Going Faster" by Carl Lopez is a very good resource. I found my "like new" hard cover copy at abebooks.com, for $40.00, or you can google it in paper back for about $10.00. Either choice works but I am confident that you will find yourself returning to it for the information contained therein many times. Enjoy the learning opportunity. I hope this is helpful.
     
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  20. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Yes - excellent read and I also recommend Ultimate Speed Secrets by Ross Bently. The combination of learning and applying RaceCraft through Simulation can be very rewarding and enjoyable, even if one doesn't have access to the do so in RL racing.
     

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