Traction Levels Between Sims

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vegaguy5555, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    502
    Hi everyone!

    I am still fairly new here and am having a lot of fun with the physics. I am working my Fanatec v2 wheel hard to say the least.

    Traction seems to be accurate here in rF2 for me (drivers licence sinse 1981), a little off in Pcars and down right ice pach in AC at times. What made me open a thread just now was talking to a friend from AC trying rF2 for the first time and he had to set AC to 'green' track conditions to make a fair comparison with rF2, which is the opposite of what I have.

    Has anyone done a setup rig comparison before on YouTube? I am suspecting every rig is not the same. I know I am here in rF2 because it is the first time experiencing realistic weight transfer. I know everyone is getting tired of hearing about it but if you had any idea how hard I worked for it you would understand. And here this guy from AC has little traction here. No wonder everyone in AC thinks I'm crazy and probably half the people here as well but I've been sliding around AC like a figure skater for nearly three years now. My friends don't want to try my rig anymore until now with rF2. And the last friend drove around Historic Spa with the AC Cobra until his shoulder gave out.

    What is going on? How can this be?

    I'm not making this up! I don't want the attention I just like to drive! I believe all the guys in AC! I really don't think they are all sliding around like I was and still do over there?

    Also, in AC after about 15-20 minutes I will get a high pitched squeal from my wheel that has yet to happen with rF2. And trust me, I have never worked my wheel as hard as it does in rF2 for out right heavy FFB and long periods of use.
     
  2. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    287
    That this one guy from AC feeled rF2 to be "slidy" or "icy", or whatever word describes this correctly
    can in general only mean one of the two (or both) things: There was no Ralroad-grip on the track in rF2 when he tested,
    or he has a not so high end PC and simulation is falling out of realtime.

    You forgot to mention what car he/you have tested for this comparison! So what I said above is surely only true for a fair comparison between
    the same, or a similar car.

    For me personally, I feel that AC has a significant problem with transfering the traction, or better said: the feeling of having traction
    to the player. I´ve tried several changes in options to increase the visual transfer, but with no luck.
    AC lacks in translating physical action to visual output to "feel" something as a player. And that problem is MASSIVE there!
    So you have litrerally no clue what the car is doing, other than through FFB. And that´s not enough.
     
    Rui Santos and vegaguy5555 like this.
  3. pkelly

    pkelly Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    151
    Thanks for posting that peterchen. I was beginning to doubt myself with the major difference I sense between these 2 sims. In rF2 the "seat of the pants" sensation is solid whereas AC has me hanging on and definitely less confidence in my driving. AC kinda feels like hydroplaning - Not always a pleasurable experience :-(
     
  4. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    502
    He was comparing Lotus 49 in AC to the Brabham F1 on Bathurst and AC's ripped Nordschleife. I had made YouTube videos trying to make a point in AC. Hands Off Assetto Corsa and Attempt Hands Off rF2 on the Bathurst long down hill over hill.

    I just took the AC Cobra around Historic Spa rip in AC. (I really don't mean to run down AC or the guys. They have been very good friends for more than a couple of years.) This combination of car and track really shows the difference in physics. In sort, for me, it's a long boring drive in AC.

    I know the road surface is not laser scanned but I get the feel of a heavy North American bigblock in a very light car with way too much horse power while in AC the car begins to move.

    This can't be what everyone driving in AC feels?

    If I were to open this exact thread in AC all hell would brake out. I may even hear about it now.
     
  5. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    502
    I agree but I have to make a point for AC. There are videos of great driving and drifting that I can't come close to doing or explain. I do believe AC's working for them somehow just not for me. When I ask they say I need to learn how to drive, which I or my friends have no problem with rF2. How can two groups of sim users have such a huge difference in driving opinion?

    A car is car? Right?
     
  6. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    287
    That´s what I would describe it too! Agree.

    I´m asking this myself for a long time..... must have something to do with people not able to feel properly/fine enough.
    Similar thing like I´m trying to understand why (most) people can´t hear properly. Sigificant differences in sound systems are often overheard,
    can´t be pronounced,- heck, some people even fail to notice the difference between High-Res audio and a 320kb/s mp3!

    I for one really don´t understand how people can feel a car in a physics-based "simulation" where you have simply no feel at all!
    That´s the reason why I can´t take people who thinks AC has at least good physics any kind of serious anymore.
    They wouldn´t even feel the difference between two different cars in rF2.

    Something OT here: I hope you don´t start a flamewar there at AC-forum. Don´t think that bickering with them leads to anything than bad words.
     
    bwana and vegaguy5555 like this.
  7. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    191
    It is relieving to see that it is not only me having a completely strange feeling when driving AC. You don't need to drive a full lap to realise about it. In 2 or 3 turns you can see something is going very wrong.
    I haven't tested it for quite a while since it is stopped working in my PC. However, it is difficult to imagine a radical change in it according to readings.
     
    ericRacer, peterchen and vegaguy5555 like this.
  8. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    502
    Is it possible we don't have AC working properly?
     
  9. Emery

    Emery Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,789
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    The February update in AC fixed a lot of the feeling for me. Cars in the Porsche pack that were understeering pigs (even with the V10 tires!) suddenly started feeling, well, if not "right", at least significantly better. I quickly went through some other cars and they too felt better. IMHO, something major was corrected in the base physics engine!

    pCARS and my CSWv2 don't get along. Some of them feel tolerable and others feel more like I'm steering with a gamepad, as if they completely throw away a few bits of steering resolution. No amount of fiddling with adjustments helps me in there. Since there's little reason to go into it except to look at pictures of tracks & cars, I guess that's okay :eek:
     
    vegaguy5555 likes this.
  10. kimbo

    kimbo Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    199
    I never liked AC, do not touch it since one year ago, i can t understand why is so popular.
    For me impossible to compare with RF2,AMS and raceroom
     
    Tr51, Rui Santos, Ho3n3r and 3 others like this.
  11. pkelly

    pkelly Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    151
    I wish it were that simple. I've spent too much time trying to tweak AC to personalize the "feel" but, alas, it's escaped me. Their forums haven't been much help either.
    Big buck$$ to anyone who can ease our pain ;-)
     
    vegaguy5555 likes this.
  12. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    502
    I don't open this thread to bash AC but more for the 'holly grail fix'. I mean just think about it for a minute. The graphics here are pretty poor quality compared to AC. So what other reason would someone come here??

    White knuckle, holly hell, fly by the seat driving FFB! The car does what I know it should. I spend more time driving then trying to get it to drive, is why I'm here!!

    But in the end for any sim driving, there isn't too many excuses to slide through a corner on optimum track surface when not racing. It doesn't happen for me in real life on dusty road conditions so why in a sim?? Lack of information to make a logical decision when to brake and turn is the only reason I can think of.
     
  13. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

    Joined:
    May 22, 2014
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    200
    For me AC started to feel little bit better after turning post processing effects off. Those cause video lag so that's probably the reason why it helped. Also make sure you are not using vsync.

    There was some ffb settings in ac text files and i got some improvement from fiddling with those. There was a gyro effect which i disabled and i did some other stuff too but don't remember what.

    Edit: with same fov, speeds feels slower in ac imo, so i use little bit bigger fov in ac.
     
    vegaguy5555 likes this.
  14. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    502
    It's strange for me when comparing the two. rF2 feels slower but more exciting. I have more time to do more driving, it feel crazy at the time. Very exciting.

    In AC it's a long drive down the straights to plowsteer through the next corner. The curbs are deadly here while nonexistent in some cases in AC for me but obviously not for the mass majority.

    I guess I'm just too old to make AC work?
     
    kimbo likes this.
  15. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    502
    The Porsches felt the best. I will have to try again.

    I have seen the videos of guys doing some cool stuff so I know I'm missing something. Right now I just don't have enough FFB to do much in AC.

    I love piss driving cars here in rF2. The AC Cobra is my poison of choice lately. What a lady!!
     
  16. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    You need Wheel Check (iRacing's tool) and LUT generator to even begin talking about feedback in Assetto. But once it's all setup, and depending on what you run and where, you do feel the wheel quite well. When that is working, the detail and smoothness is superior to Automobilista or anything with the realfeel plugin.
     
    vegaguy5555 likes this.
  17. T1specialist

    T1specialist Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    163
    Well since this is all just opinions. I prefer the feel of ac over rf2. Ac just communicates better what the car is doing. However despite rf2 for me giving less feeling it does feel the grip levels are more correct. In this case rf2 feels a bit harder which I think in this case is more realistic. Not because more harder is more realistic but because I think ac has moved towards being too easy. I think this change is unintentional. I don't think they are dumbing down their sim.

    Ac used to be very good in 1.2 but after they started messing with load sensitivety they made the cars a lot easier to drive. Especially coming of from corners you can effortlessly slide the car with full power. Something like the laferrari out of the last corner in portimao was literally unspinnable at one point. There was no snap of any kind when the car regains grip because it seems the grip falloff laterally is too small. This also makes it super difficult to lose the car on corner entry or at high speeds. After that they have been fiddling with things but personally I've lost interest and can't really say if the last versions have made it better again. Doesn't mean that ac is just easymode. The more aero effected cars still bite back. But tires are too forgiving.

    Rf2 is better in this regard but lacks a bit in the feel department. Can't really feel the load o the tires, can't really predict when the tire is about to start to slide. Sometimes it is even hard to notice you are already sliding because the car just yaws smoothly over the peak slip angle. But this is an issue for me with all isi based sims. Ffb helps but there is something that is not relayed from the physics to the screen as you drive. Iracing feels fine. Gpl is fine, n2k3 is fine, lfs is fine but all rf based games (rf1, rf2, ams, raceroom, gtl, gtr... race07..) feel like some physical information that is being simulated is not shown on screen. Whether that is tire deflection, spring deflection, both or whatever not affecting the roll in the corners that camera shows I don't know.

    In ideal world I'd take rf2 tire physics with ac/iracing/gpl feel. Whatever that feel actually is. It is not camera settings, fov or ffb though. Ffb is best of all the sims even if it has some issues (peaky ffb in lighter cars). Just fyi Iirc rf2 and ac use different ways to calculate fov. One calculates vertical and one calculates horizontal. So you can't use the same number.

    Of course the important thing when comparing tires is to compare vehicles with very low downforce numbers. Because once you add downforce the general feeling of the car is totally controlled by the aerodynamic forces. Especially at higher speeds. Tires really only make a difference when you are in 1st or 2nd gear (if the steady state grip values are identical). Unless you are in 1000hp formula car or prototype. Ac also has adjustable grip for the tracks. If you are using optimal grip level you are simply doing it wrong.
     
    vegaguy5555 likes this.
  18. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    287
    Totally FFB-dependent opinion! What I am saying has nothing to do with this.

    Can you two guys just make an experiment, using no FFB at all (turning it down to 0 at software), and then please comparing rF2 to AC?
    Thanks! Awaiting your experiences!
     
    kimbo and vegaguy5555 like this.
  19. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    287
    LOOL! Just feeling the total opposite!
    WHERE and HOW do you feel AC?? Grip levels are more correct? What grip levels? As you said there are some cars that don´t have any levels at all!! No limits, no borders, no feel that the tyre is doing something that isn´t "good"!
    It´s a miracle to me! Where is there ANY communication?

    Have you tried to set "Exaggerate Yaw":0.xx to a higher number? Like 0.48?
    You should do that!
     
    kimbo likes this.
  20. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    My comment was not about comparing the games' driving perspective or anything you said. The FFB should be disabled when doing so because 99% of statements made seem to be based on what the user feels through the wheel, not impartial car behavior. A Lotus 49 isn't comparable to a Brabham BT21 much less BT20 as it was superior in power and handling, and the track used is a shoddy conversion on top of it. My comment was only about getting the best force feedback possible from the other game before even adding the non-dynamic kerb/road/whatever sliders.
     

Share This Page