Hello studio-397 dev team, Would you please thoughtfully consider adding a parameter in a JSON file to regulate/decrease ffb power during oversteer situation? It is not a request to change the FFB algorithm but if it can be done in a simple way. I don't have deep knowledge how FFB is calculated but I think it can done in below way thinking simply. - i) calculating the FFB generated from 4 tires - ii) calculating other FFB like vibration for kerb - iii) combining i) and ii), and generate final FFB Initially I though it might be okay just to decrease the final FFB from step iii) and it might be the easiest way. But after some thoughts, I got to know that it may also decrease the vibration FFB on kerb. Hence my final thoughs are to decrease the power only for step i) which is related to only steering power. I know my description is not detailed but too rough. But I believe you get my point. Now let me tell you why I'm requesting it. I'm a OSW user and I've enjoyed it with rF2 for several years steadily. My driving style is something like encouraging yawing momentum at corner to make easy turn. Hence I meet oversteer situation more easily than others and sometimes relatively big oversteer situation happens. What I want is to keep my both hands on steering wheel crossing my hands although in big oversteer angle like below youtube link. In the video, Pablo's manipulation is light during counter steering and recovery as the track is a little wet and rear tires are worn. But in Youtube, we can find easily this kind of cross handling and recovery although with sports tires. <New oversteer control video added here as it was informed above Pablo's video comes from FF car.> --removed-- But in my case when oversteer angle is big, the steering wheel moves so quickly with big torque. Therefore I can't use cross handlng for counter steering and recovery but I just have to let the wheel go sliding it in my palm and push & pull the wheel for recovery. It is not a choice but an inevitable one. Please refer below Youtube link to see my case(7 sec is enough to see it). In the video, you may be able to see too speedy and strong self steering and phsically hard recovery In the video, It's not a pure rF2 car but I experience it easily in other cars & tracks. Time set isn't allowed for embedded youtube. Please directly go to 2:08. Of course I know the simple rule that adding damper makes wheel slower but too much damper makes the wheel dull. For several years, I've been trying yo regulate so many settings but not successful to find sweet spot. Although the FFB gain isn't too much, it happens. To be honest, I have no idea where the problem is. But carefully observing the FFB overlay app in the game, it seems like the FFB doesn't go too higher during the period but still not sure. Hence I'd like to ask rF2 dev team to provide an option which allows FFB power regulating during oversteer situation(condition might be: rear tire slip angle > front tire slip angle). Browsing the internet, I saw similar one in RaceRoom Racing Experience but not exactly same. There are so many kinds of steering wheel and it seems that RRE provides the option for each user to find their appropriate setting value. I hope rF2 also adopts what I asked. >> Steering Force Intensity: >> Adjusts the forces generated from cornering. >> Increase it to make the wheel stiffer and to get more feedback when the car is oversteering. >> Decrease it if you experience clipping. >> Recommended setting: between 100 - 150% In summary, - It is not a complain for wrong FFB but just a small enhancement in case it can be achievable without changing pure FFB algorithm. If it requires the FFB algorithm change, this request can be discarded. - During big oversteer situation, I'd like to use cross handling for counter steering and recovery. But in my system, it's almost impossible due to too speedy and strong FFB during big oversteer. - Hence I'd like to request rF2 you provide a parameter which sets(decreases) "FFB power during oversteer(0.01~1.00)". User can find & set appropriate setting value for his/her steering wheel system. It might not be perfect but I belive it makes better FFB experience. - RRE already has similar setting. Thanks for reading and I hope rF2 dev team treat this request positively.
I see nothing wrong with your experience during that oversteer moment. Pablo was driving a front wheel drive car on a wet road at very low speed compared to the speed you were going in game. Have a look at any onboard drifting videos, that are going at a fast speed, you will see that non of them cross hands, they let the wheel spin. I’m not saying your wrong for asking for this, and I’m not saying I’m correct, but I bet you were doing atleast twice the speed of pablo, so ofcourse the forces will be higher
Thanks for sharing that Fablo was driving FF car. I didn't know that. But as I mentioned it is easily seen in many Youtube videos that big angle oversteer control is possible without let steering wheel go. If you can't find it, I can give several links. Additionally I'm not a drifter and just control oversteer once it happens. And in the real world, when it comes to counter steering and recovery action, self steering power is something like horse power rather than torque. In my case, I feel too hard/tired to control oversteer due to the torque. Again I don't report it as a defect but enhancement. This enhancement request is not for all users but for some users who feel like me. Therefore if you don't feel like me, you just do ignore it. You won't change the parameter and anything FFB related won't be changed for you. Cheers.
@softslider Your guessing at a "FFB algorithm" is reminiscent of rFactor from 10-12 years ago and other games from then and now. But it's not how rF2 works. The tyres are modelled, and their interaction with the road (or grass/dirt ) surface generates forces. That interacts with the suspension geometry which is all modelled and supporting the car's weight as it would in real life, and that all leads to a certain force acting on the steering column (whose position and orientation is also in the modelling). That force only undergoes some basic scaling to put it somewhere in a -100% to +100% range, and that gets sent to your wheel. There are some controller parameters which may influence it a little (damping, friction, output curve shape) but at its core it's purely a function of what the physics is doing. So your request isn't a simple addition. It would be an entirely different FFB system that does a lot of "if x, then ..." and would represent a reversion to older FFB techniques that have inherent shortcomings that rF2 has worked to overcome. It's technically completely equivalent to people asking for flatspots to be 'turned off', when flatspots are just a function of a proper tyre model with dynamic wear leading to localised excessive wear from abuse. The game can't isolate those and disable them, and it can't isolate oversteer and tune the FFB in that scenario. Now, a caveat: there are certainly aspects of real steering systems that rF2 lacks, such as power steering. Whether implementing that or considering other aspects of real cars would make it feel better for you isn't something we can answer in a forum, but your request as it is just doesn't apply to the way rF2 works.
My guessing isn't that important if Studio-397 devs get my point. I`ve seen so many writings saying "rF2 FFB is completely derived from the physics calculations as a whole.". I see this concept. But in a JSON file, we can regulate the settings for rumble strip magnititude and off-road multiplier. Regardless of fake or not, there are some settings which changes the FFB derived from the physics calculation as a whole. Normally there is a backdoor in the implementation and devs don't want thieir concept to be changed or interrupted although it is doable. Again I request it to Studio-397 only in case it doesn't required much effort and Studio-397 can select more elegant method rather than my poor description. One more reason which I didn't write in original post is sometimes I hear some sound from my joint of wrist or shoulder. Regarding the power steering option you mentioned, I believe it doesn't help my situation. In case of hydraulic power steering system, the steering feedback isn't linear noramlly. And in the electric system, the feeling can be different depending on each implementation. For example of MX-5 ND, I saw the eletric power steering system gives linear feedback. But there were too many people who complains on it. Hence I predict the power steering implementation will make more arguements. Also normally it won't be that helpful if the speed isn't low. In case of Honda S2000, I was told tht power steering only works up to 40km/h or something around there. Once the speech reaches a certaint point(not that speedy), normally we can live without power steering system as you may know. This was also confirmed by a race driver with a lot of experience in non-power steering sports car.
Are you using Mmos software or Simucube configuration tool? If you are using Mmos there is a damping filter setting. I think it is possible to use that to let vibrations through even when using higher amounts of damper (Similarly named setting in Simucube don't work like this.). Basically the Mmos damping filter causes delay to how quickly the damper effect kicks in when the wheel starts to rotate, so with higher damping filter value the damper effect doesn't kick in to dampen the vibrations from ffb as much. So you can try to use more damper effect and then use more damping filter to medicate the dulling effect of damper.
@softslider You're asking for one phase of FFB generation (that coming from the tyres) to be scaled in certain situations, with the other FFB phase (vibrations from kerbs) left alone. I'm just saying there are not two phases - 'vibrations' only come from kerbs because the tyres are interacting with the kerbs, it's not some separate calculation. Power steering was just an example of something the game doesn't have. I didn't say it was going to help your problem necessarily. I'm sure there are other aspects of car behaviour the game doesn't deal with, and if there is something not quite right in the manner you're describing maybe some of those are a factor in that. The parameters you've mentioned are either outdated or simply shouldn't be used (and rely on old tech). Rumble strip magnitude doesn't do anything because old-style rumbles (a painted kerb texture on a smooth surface, using tdf properties to generate bumps) don't work now, or aren't used. Off-road multiplier does work, using a simple "terrain type" variable the game is picking up from the driven surface. Same goes for rumble strip pull factor, which works but probably should be disabled (and I think is by default, on most wheel profiles at least), it again relies on the terrain type. It also only works on kerbs that are identified as kerbs - Zandvoort is one example of a track where some kerbs will activate it and some won't. Now, activating a parameter such as off-road multiplier when the terrain type matches a given value, is one thing (it really is either yes or no, and any strange ffb fluctuations on the transition are masked by the fact you're off-road), but trying to isolate oversteer would become a long chain of if-then tests that almost always lead away from realistic behaviour because you're trying to tailor the output to different scenarios and transitions will just turn out feeling wrong in some situations. They moved to a physical model for that reason. It's definitely possible - nothing's set in stone until your wheel is moving - but it's not a good way to approach things. And it would be a regression for rF2 to do it.
