Tire temps during cornering

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stefan_L_01, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    Hi
    I would like to discuss something I´m wondering about since I bought rf2.
    When you corner, starting with the slightest growl sound, yet far away from your race pace, the tire heats up significantly. That´s more or less ok, but what I think is wrong: it allways heats up on the OUTER and middle shoulder of the tire, but few if any on the inside shoulder - even with high(est) camber set (at least for the mods I drove so far, very extreme for example the latest flat6 4.0, but also GT, usf2000 and so on)
    The inside of the tire gets only hot in case of straight braking or accelerating (makes sense), OR for left turns the left inner tire when the inside is now the outer shoulder in terms of corner direction.
    I think this is wrong.
    In this F1 footage you can see the tires heat up equal over all area
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?forums/general-discussion.127/create-thread

    In this amateur video it heats up the front not so much on the inside, but the author mentions in this comments camber was set wrong for the fronts. For correct camber the heatup would be symmetric.


    I don´t know why tires heat up wrong in rf2 so early at low corner speed. Maybe they find the outer part not being useful for grip, they get a slip state in the software (though not slipping because the inner part hold the car still well) and a model heats them up by (non-existing) slip drag calculations. Pure speculation. Or the contact patch is not placed on the tire at right position, allways centered while it moves dynamically across the tire, I dont know.
    In any case this can not be correct in my opinion. I ve not yet seen any mod where you can set camber in a way that the inner part heats up more than the outer part during cornering
    Best regards
    Stefean
     
  2. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    I don't know if the temp behavior is wrong or right, but can someone tell where i get that real-time tyre temp/contact patch box visible? I mean that box in up left corner in this video.
     
  3. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Left alt + Ctrl
     
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  4. ADSTA

    ADSTA Registered

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    That box is known as the TGM Display.
    In your controller setup screen go to the "Misc" tab.
    Find Triples/Tires------CTRL/ALT -Empty-
    You have to assign a key to it. I have mine with equal, CTRL/ALT Equal
    CTRL+ = will bring up the triple screen adjustment app if you have triples.
    ALT + = will bring up the TGM, there is two displays so ALT + = again to see it.
    I'm sure someone will come and tell you the difference, or you could do a search yourself. ;)
     
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  5. Lu ManiaK

    Lu ManiaK Registered

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    I'm asking for a friend. He has 3 monitors and when he activate the Triples he can see the little box in the right monitor. He wanted to know if it is possible to change that position.
     
  6. Gonzo

    Gonzo Member

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    Afaik not possible atm.
     
  7. Lu ManiaK

    Lu ManiaK Registered

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    Ok thx. He was also wrong...he has the triples on the left on left monitor.
     
  8. Aug

    Aug Registered

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    Not directly related to your original question (interesting as it is), I have noticed something else that seems a bit fishy regarding how the tires warm up. When you spin the tires under power with the car barely moving they heat up very quickly which makes sense on dry tarmac, but it seems to me that they heat up in the same way even if you spin them on the grass or mud, and also in wet weather. I would expect the grip level (the coefficient of friction of the surface) to dictate how quickly the tires warm up when they are slipping and also how quickly they wear down. And yet they seem to heat up and wear down very quickly (looks to be the same rate to me) regardless of the surface they are on.

    Another factor to take into consideration is the cooling effect of a wet surface on the tire compound which should be different from the normal cooling (due to convection with surrounding air).

    I don't know if you find the same phenomenon, but to me this happened regardless of the vehicle I was driving even S397 vehicles behave in the same way and seems to be an inherent characteristic of the tire model.
     
  9. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Aug for properly done tyres there should be a cooling difference on wet track, as there is a parameter specifically for that. But then we're very quickly heading into the lack of real water volume/depth being modeled (at the moment it's just a wet surface) so it's not perfect, plus at this stage the tyres don't pick up anything onto their surface (moisture/gravel/etc) that should also have some effect. Though for cooling it should somewhat suffice to include that effect in the track conductance parameter.

    Should definitely see a difference compared to dry track though.

    Grass heat/wear has been a bugbear since forever, it's among the things that make rF2 feel like a half developed technology demo. Does some fantastic stuff, but also has things that just don't seem right - and it reduces credibility, which is a shame when the raw physics seems so capable.
     
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  10. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    The tires heating on the grass, I always thought it was the penalty you pay for off-track excursions. Heat builds quickly which limits traction until you get back on the asphalt and give the tires a chance to cool back to normal operating temperatures
     
  11. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    I'd counter that and argue why have an 'Arcade Feature' in a game trying to be a Simulation? As Lazza said it's always been there just never rectified, I'm sure there is some sort of friction between tire & grass (and spinning tires in gravel) but as there's probably not any data whatsoever I can see why it might never be like real life. Dust/dirt is one thing that could better simulate an off track experience, but excessive heat is far fetched in RF2 IMO and 'An Other' item for S397 to sort out.
     
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  12. caravan_driver

    caravan_driver Registered

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    Highjacking the thread.
    Do you guys notice that in the faster cars like FISI you leave skidmarks on the track during cornering?
    I thought I was turning too much (the visual steering wheel may not be 1to1 in this car dependingo on the setup) but then I watched Formula Sim Racing in Interlagos and the skidmarks during cornering is there.

    Although the temps go high the tyres still stick to the road.
     
  13. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    A bit offtopic but after trying F1 2017 last days i've seen something they've done really well (despite it's more of an arcade game), when your rain tires overheat, the guy from the radio tells you to use wet parts of the track to lower temperature, i found this very realistic and logic!
     
  14. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    @The Iron Wolf Is this in Crew Chief? (If this is even in the tire physics for RF2 that is!?)
     
  15. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    No it's not, and it's not implemented in rF2 also, if you drive off the racing line (more wet/cold part) tire temperatures have same temperature behaviour as if they were in a less wet part...
     
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  16. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Many cars do that and it's so ugly
    Yeah that will kinda happen in real life but it's not visible like this with smoke and all that if you are not drifting. I wish they'd fix that. You can see many aliens driving the GT3 pack and causing this smoke/skidmark =/
     
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  17. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Registered

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    Aside from what others say about the fact that you can't cool tires down by driving over wet surface, another problem is that currently rF2 does not expose tire curves via internals model. So even if we could suggest cooling tires down in some way, we do not have enough information to properly calculate that. There's a way to specify temp ranges via car class definitions, but same range applies to all tire types and it's not the easiest thing for people to use.

    I really hope this information will be exposed soon, I can't imagine it being difficult - internals model has plenty of reserved bytes, and curves are available in content files.
     
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  18. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    I can´t confirm that. Tyre cooling on the wet line was implemented i think 2 years ago and it works well with the GT3. I used it i few days ago.Pushing the wet tyres on the dry line let the temperature increase massivly and driving on the wet line, lets the temperature decrease much more faster the keep driving on the dry line.
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Yeah, there's definitely extra conductance (heat loss to track) on a wet track, with recent ISI/S397 tyres. Well, I should say I haven't done proper testing of it... but the already existing conductance parameter works, and the new one should just rely on the track dampness, so it should work...
     
  20. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    So nothing will happen with that unreal tire behaviour? Tuning in -3.5 deg camber and observing outer area to heat up most is ok ? Ridicolous. Going with least possible pressure you can dile in without any heat up penalty due to high carcass twist? Ridicolous. Get it fixed pls. . Get it real. Thx
     
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