Tire Temperatures: OUT > IN... (0.o)

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by Yoeri Gijsen, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. Yoeri Gijsen

    Yoeri Gijsen Registered

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    Hello,

    This has been bothering me for a few months and I wonder if something is wrong the tire model, the data analyzation or the way I interpret data.

    Studio 397's and ISI's most recent releases as well as updates changed something about tires as compared to, say, pre-2015. Whenever I read out tire temperatures with newer cars and updated old ones, the temperatures on the outer contact patch are consistenly higher than on the inner contact patch (or the middle for that matter).
    No matter how far I push the negative camber values, out > inner.

    I've seen this with the GT3 Pack, but before that with the SR3 (to some extend), the USF2000, but also updated models like the Renault Clio Cup car.

    I find this confusing when setting up the car. I usually try to analyse the tempatures to get to most out of the tires, but lately this hasn't been working due to the outer patch always 'peaking' harder than the inner patch, telling me I need more camber while I am already at maximum.

    The graphs below all run setups with minimum tire pressure and maximum negative camber. The data has been collected with the DAMplugin and displayed through MoTeC i2 Pro with the channels visible in the graph. The tests were performed at Silverstone, so predominantly right-hand corners, which is why the left front tire is displayed.

    So...
    Is the tire model off?
    Is something wrong with the DAMplugin or MoTeC?
    Am I reading the data incorrectly?
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    I've asked this question some time ago, that happened for me with the Formula Renault 3.5 also, would really like to know what's going on...
     
  3. whitmore

    whitmore Registered

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    Has been this way for a very long time. Simply unreliable for setup purposes. Data is what game is spitting out, issue is with the effects of the tyres not motec replication of the data passed to it.

    Tyre pressures dropped to min for best lap times. A very long thread exist on this subject. Don't waste your time with setting pressure for best tyre wear deducted from the tyre temps.
     
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  4. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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  5. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    I've not seen weird temps with the new GT3s either
     
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  6. Yoeri Gijsen

    Yoeri Gijsen Registered

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    Thanks for your responses.

    @SPASKIS what level of data do you extract through DAM? Level 1, 2 or 3? And which do you use to display?

    Could it be that I need to use Tyre Rubber Temp FL instead of Tyre Temp FL?
     
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  7. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I put everything in on (1) in both motec and DAM plugin ini files.I use the standard logging rate.

    I don't think it is related to the channel itself. I actually believe you are having the problem you say. If you could upload a DAM plugin log with all the channel enabled I'll take a look at it to confirm or deny it.
     
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  8. Yoeri Gijsen

    Yoeri Gijsen Registered

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  9. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    As you see, inner is hotter in both channels despite being much more noticeable in right wheels for being a clockwise track.
    I recommend using tyre rubber temp. It is more stable through the lap.

    According to it, you should increase left tires camber (-0.3º). Right tires seem OK maybe reduce a bit RR.

    Increasing a little bit tire pressure may benefit as well and as a side effect it will reduce a little bit the inner vs outer temp difference.


    upload_2017-10-19_22-7-15.png
    upload_2017-10-19_22-7-40.png
     
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  10. Yoeri Gijsen

    Yoeri Gijsen Registered

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    Thanks for that @SPASKIS

    May I ask how you calculated a tyre temperature differential into an actual specific amount of camber change? I can see it in your sheet, but I'm wondering what the maths behind it is.
     
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  11. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    There is not much math behind it. It's just practice. I usually adjust camber and pressures in order to get a 15-20 temp difference between inner and outer rubber tyre temps.

    After doing it many times, you can see how much camber is needed to compensate certain difference.

    BTW I also use telemetry a lot to see where I stress tires the most. In some tracks you may need to focus on taking care about one tire. Finding the most critical one or two spots, in order to take them easy while in race, is very advisable to extend lifetime and capabilities.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
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  12. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    Thx for the tyre rubber information.
     
  13. oppolo

    oppolo Registered

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    @SPASKIS
    how to display the groups in a worksheet in that way?
     
  14. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I don't understand what you mean with "groups". I can send you my project template when I get home on Thursday.
     
  15. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    I'd like to have a look at it too ☺️
     
  16. oppolo

    oppolo Registered

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    I am trying to make your worksheet but my groups are one over the other
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    You can resize each window and include as many windows as you please in each worksheet. You can also copy/paste a window to make a clone of it and modify its channels. This is useful for generating one window per tire.
     

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