Tire Temperatures in rF2

Discussion in 'ISI cars and tracks' started by Nor, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. Nor

    Nor Registered

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    Hi @ all,

    I've noticed that the temperature difference between inner and outer Tire is quite hudge (>20K), much more than in other sims (about 10K).
    It's not possible to adjust the temperature difference using camber settings. Any suggestions how to treat the difference and what is optimal difference? What is the reason for that issue?

    Second, in most cases I get problems to raise the tire temperature for the rears more than 60°C. Even if I have the feeling that car oversteers extremly, I only get temperature on the front tires.
    Any Suggestions?

    Best regards Norbert
     
  2. soadele

    soadele Registered

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    i did noticed that when i raced with traction control.... i use to race both the camaro and the corvette with the stock setup, just making small changes to the setups..... try racing them without any driving helps, use low steering rate, you will notice the rear tires get higher temps that front tires, at least thats what happens to me.... just to tell you and other guys complaining about this, las friday we had a race with the corvettes at poznan without any driving helps, the race was 25 minutes and we all made it to the checkers without pitting... i noticed in the long run you get used to the car handling and you feel it gets better and better... the fastest lap was 1:05.xx at the end of the race i was doing 1:06 and 1:07 with all tire dots on red color... not bad at all.
     
  3. soadele

    soadele Registered

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    also ive seen some guys are too used to the clios and meganes where you have to raced it like you stole it....in this case, race the track, dont overdrive your car, wait for it to come to you, it will feel better and better.
     
  4. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    The rF2 ISI GT cars don't wear the tires right at all. In a 25 min race they are fine, but these are supposed to be endurance cars and they have a tough time making an hour. Also ISI cars will not heat up the rears- the prob is that the tires get a LOT more heat into them and wear through lateral slip than longitudinal slip. That's why high HP RWD cars in rF2 will experience probs with rear tires not heating and a lack of even wear fore and aft. There are other rF2 GT mods out there that do this a heck of a lot better.

    When you see the tire heating in the HUD, you are only seeing the superficial tire temp. The carcass of the tire is heating up, it just takes a little faith to know it is happening. That said, the rF2 tire model does not respond correctly to changes in static camber values in set ups. That's why in rF2 you have to run very shallow cambers. The tires do not respond to tire pressures like they should in regards to heating- this is a known issue. Running low pressures is still helpful in car setup for longer format races because the contact patch does change with increased tire pressure due to temp changes.

    Compared to other sims, rF2 tire wear and heating has a long way to go.
     
  5. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    I'm amazed at how incorrect you are.
     
  6. Nor

    Nor Registered

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    thanks soadele,

    reducing steering angle helped a lot concerning my issue. I realised that I overdrew my car, it was a bad habit from my Race07 time, where you can push the car very hard without big impact on tires.

    Now the front tire temperatures decreased, and my Nordschleife time decreased by 10sek.
     
  7. soadele

    soadele Registered

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    happy to hear that Nor
     
  8. soadele

    soadele Registered

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    with all respect im not sure we race the same sim.... other sims dont even have tire engine.... and for sure any car will wear the tires more by lateral slip than longitudinal slip... wait! longitudinal slip?..... you mean, spining out rear tires and blocking front tires? thats the first time in more than 10 years i hear longitudinal spin. as i said before the way you drive your car the way the tire will overheat and wear out...wait for the car and the track to come to you... don try to drive them thinking it is a megane or a clio..remember these are heavy and powerfull cars... i can tell you that corvette can get over 50 minutes at poznan, and for sure you have to keep in mind, normally a set of tires is designed for a full fuel run.
     
  9. soadele

    soadele Registered

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    hey Nor if youre racing that Nordschleife turist ring, make sure you take out some springs from the front of the car, it feels very bumpy with the deafult set.
     
  10. alfa32

    alfa32 Registered

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    I have to agree with Guy here. Like he said if you use low camber settings you can get the temperature difference between inside and outside to be around 5 Kelvin. On a track like Blackwood for example, the tyres on my C6R will be aroud 62°C on the straight and then heat up nicely to 92°C through a turn. Only problem i have is the center Temperature being too high even running at 117kPa but since its a known issue ill just have to wait for a fix. :/
     
  11. alpha-bravo

    alpha-bravo Registered

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    Guy I think it is a little bit more complex.
    But I'm sure you know that already (no joke) :)
    My expirence to get temperature on the tire outside mesure points is that I have to tune and balance spring, chamber, arb, tire pressure, chamber, caster and toe.
    After I got some temperature on the outside I try to balance them for the whole surface.
    But yes this is everytime a difficult challenge and (very often:D) sometimes I have not enough knowledge to get it. But it is possible.
    I can confirm the problem with the allways to high temp. in middle of the tire. But ISI is aware about that. You can see this in Community question and answer.

    Months ago there was a similar discussion (tire wear from player versus AI) I think you was also in.
    In those days I did some tests with AI and the cr6 in poznan and it was possible for me to drive about 50 minutes with the same tire set and without my mistakes maybe one hour (don't know :p )
    I remember I had to downgrade the AI strenghtness to be competitive.
    If the simulated lap time and tire wear is realistic according to real race times and wear I can't say.
    But on the other hand in a rF2 race we have all the same conditions and it's your choice to push the car and need more tire changes or drive smooth and need less.
    I think from this view and without try to compare the results with real racing the results are coherent.
    What I want to say it is a complex thing and as we can see sometimes the world best drivers are not able to take this challenge so why we should able to get it every time.
    Maybe rF2 simulate the things much better as we belive?
    This is my personally expirience and I'm always open for a second mind or hints.

    alex
    Gesendet von meinem iPad mit Tapatalk HD
     
  12. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    The car overturns not oversteers. There is something with the steering geometry and slip angle behaviour. For a more specific diagnosis i need to know the design and how things work but just rated by feeling something isn't optimal working as it should be imho.
     
  13. Nor

    Nor Registered

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    Thanks for advice, but my car oversteers.
     
  14. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Yes it does. Somewhat clumsily formulated there. Would like to say it does something kinda like for me. Knew it not better to explain. My mistake, sorry.

    I think the tyres overheat too quickly under sliding friction, while by rolling friction and static friction too low. The more on the rear for me.
     
  15. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    So much wrong with this post. If you added "for me" to the end of almost everything you said, it wouldn't come across like you're making it up quite so much.


    Sent from a mobile device using Tapatalk
     
  16. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    Funny, with non-ISI GT mods I don't have these issues. I'm not making anything up, these are observations that have been made by not only me but others as well. Looks like this thread is split down the middle to me. Tim, you're paid to have that opinion so we can take that with a grain of salt. The other opinions just above yours should be read and considered so maybe your company can improve the product. One thing I don't like about ISI in general is that you guys don't accept community suggestions very readily and your product is not as good as it could be as a result. Look at the Wish List section and there are certain things that come up with every build and have from day 1.

    But hey, the OP wanted opinions on his issue and so I threw out my opinion. Like it or lump it.
     
  17. Matt Sentell

    Matt Sentell Member

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    Utter nonsense. Here's another race you can ignore: http://www.race2play.com/schedule/show_event/12565

    40 minutes. 49 laps around Lime Rock on one set of tires and I still had 60% remaining on the left front.

    You're just one of those people who's going to believe whatever you choose regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

    I wonder how many times I could lap you at LRP in 40 minutes...
     
  18. Pumbaa666

    Pumbaa666 Registered

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    I'm hopeful that when the tyre model is finalised and the ISI stock cars get updated that we'll see true temp ranges again...

    I can't believe that any car with the weight of a GT can go from 90-100C down to 60 degrees down a straight...

    Simple reason...

    V8 Supercar tyres come off the car in pit lane at 130C, that's after going 40kph in the pit lane... They are of similar weight and have similar tyre properties (similar but different) so they'd have similar temp ranges to deal with in theory...

    So unless the HUD isn't set up correctly to take the tyre temp in ranges that are more like the real life info we get, it's safe to say either of the 2 things...

    ISI Stock mods need work with their tyres

    or

    The tyre model isn't close to where it needs to be just yet...

    After toiling around with the .tgm's myself and trialling other GT mods, in my opinion it's a mixture of both...
     
  19. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    I saw that race where Larko was in pit lane with the iR thermometer and I was really surprised to see that!
     
  20. Aleksi Elomaa

    Aleksi Elomaa Registered

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