Time to step up

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chickster, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. Chickster

    Chickster Registered

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    After the success of the 24hr race, I think now is the time for Sector397 to really push rF2.

    With comparisons to iRacing, personally I think iRacing is ahead and has a bigger audience but rf2 has an opportunity to level up.

    I use both platforms but I think it’s i g is too difficult for the casual user, rf2 is much easier to pick up and play, so has the potential to be more fun.

    But a lot of areas are letting rf2 down, such as poor UI, difficultly to setup customised offline races, poor code with many slowdowns and bad replay system.

    I would be more than happy if S397 concentrated on Le Mans as their primary race experience and really hoped that area to perfection. I don’t think they have the capacity to support all forms of motorsport, so why not become masters of one. Le Mans has a huge following and they have proved they can do it

    If they can optimise the Le Mans experience, sort out the bugs and issues, they can become the main esports partner for Le Mans for many years.

    If they spread their efforts too thinly, they may lose Le Mans and a whole lot more.
     
  2. Fábio Martins

    Fábio Martins Registered

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    I`m usually the hater (and I LOVE RF2), but I must say, I don`t agreed with that. We don`t need another ACC with just one tiny part of sim racing. That said, rally, nascar and those different forms of racing are way to much.

    GT`s and LMP`s and the best tracks in the world are the ideal patch for RF2.

    They just have to push it.. they lack the RAW sound of the cars for example.. the backfires.. the little detains on the sound.

    As the championship, it`s impossible (and I mean impossible), they make better than the Log Analyzer... so we already have the best offline championship in all the sim racing industry.

    I have the impression 90% of the people on this forum don`t even know what is the Log Analyzer.
    If you want a professional TOOL, this is it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  3. Fábio Martins

    Fábio Martins Registered

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    ps - It would be awesome to have the helicopters flying around the track, and the planes at the beginning with the smoke. All of this is a big part of Le Mans event (I live 7 kms from the track). As I said before, it would be cool if Le Mans was an always in progress track for RF2.
     
  4. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    Warning this is an opinion piece and not an incredibly well informed one in some areas.
    Normally I am a data driven guy but have yet to bring nyself to drop the lifetime price of RF2 on 3 months of iRacing, so no I have never even driven it.
    Some of my comments (but not all) are drawn from years of anecdotal evidence.
    Some of it is from watching 17 hrs of last weekends stunning LeMans 24 Virtual and seeing in chat about every 17 seconds "why did they not run it on iRacing"

    I am a very happy RFACTOR 2 customer.
    When I decided to get into this sim in 2012 I did a little homework.
    I didn't have a whole lot of money to throw around.
    My priority was physics. I had been turned on to car setup by a Sim called Race Pro which used the ISI motor ported to X box in a version of GTR2.

    I did a rough evaluation of iRacing vs RF2.
    There is debate supporting both these sims. I made the judgement that if it was pretty close and if anything RF2 was the physics king and that I got a lifetime membership# for less than a tenth of iRacings price it was an easy call.

    Over the 8 years there have been a lot of improvements.
    I raced and officiated in FSR. We managed fine. I have done multiple 24 hr endurance races that went well.

    There have been periods when the noise in the forums was about DX12 (edit: correction DX11 thanks @Lazza ) being essential. DX12 (DX11) became a focus and was implemented.
    There was a lot of noise about mods, now there are quite a lot to choose from.
    Laser scanned tracks got a lot of noise. (iRacing shouts from the rooftops about laser scanned circuits and the millimetre accuracy, but Silverstone is about 400 metres out as it's the 2009 layout- 11 years out of date).
    So we got "the dream" a complete set of Nordschleife laser scanned then Circuit de la Sarthe, Sebring.
    Partnerships with Reiza have yielded more tracks. There are really now quite a lot.
    Now there is a focus on multiplayer.

    For the record in my view LeMans 24 hrs was a massive success for Sim Racing and RF2.

    No matter what gets improved and developed there is always a changing group of people whose priority is not the current priority and that are seemingly a little unhappy.
    In the meantime you can drive a sim that is closer to what the pros use in their simulators than any other (ever heard of a team using iRacing?).
    You can plug in Motec analysis and it makes perfect sense.
    It costs for life what 6 weeks of iRacing costs!*
    From where I sit certain sims have an accepted "party trick"
    -PC2 choose amazing graphics over physics.
    -iRacings old and simple physics model^ makes online competition simpler from a data perspective. XX
    When you come across the loud comparisons of iRacing diehards you have to remember the financial commitment they have made. "Post purchase dissonance" is real. It's more comfortable to love it like a religion. There can be a mentality even subconsciously "I'm into iRacing for €1000 I have to support it".
    Personally I get annoyed by the very unrealistic in car chassis movement I see on streams. It's as though there is zero suspension travel. The road wheel and suspension do not move in relation to the chassis, instead the whole car moves.
    There was a lot of negativity from Supercar drivers but it was strongly discouraged and "managed" by iRacing and their organising body.

    Bottom line, iRacing is a worthy competitor and sim racing needs good products. Im not canning it but its very very expensive and it's far from perfect.

    In one sense we are in a marketing and information war where perception is everything. I might be imagining things but I think iRacing is smarting a bit from being beaten to the punch with LeMans 24, E-Series, The Race. Especially Le Mans.
    I have had to unsubscribe from the Simpit due to Shauns near refusal to cover LeMans Virtual other than a brief review of S397 official statement (yeah 40,000,000 global views. That's not news).
    I expect the iRacing team to pull out all stops on their version this weekend!

    I am very happy with S397, thrilled with the passion and know-how. Marcel Offermans was racing in the VEC Le Mans the week b4!

    In my view last week was one to be proud of.
    Keep up the great work team.

    #back then you chose between say €30 plus €15 per year for online or €60 for life.
    *as a marketing graduate it really gives me a little giggle when I hear the most common rationalisations about the astronomic price of iRacing: "it makes it more like real Motorsport as it's expensive too" "if you played golf you would need clubs and a membership" "it keeps out kids/wreckers". So you see its high price is actually a real benefit to you! I told you it makes me giggle. :)
    ^iRacing short shifting doesnt save fuel! Therefore the engine drive train input/output is emulated not simulated.
    Every 6 months they present the biggest, most accurate and game changing tyre model then 6 months later replace it with another biggest and most accurate and game changing tyre model ever.
    XX in the early days of RF2 a driver change got new tyres as the data file detailing the worn set was too big to transfer. The real road file can take minutes to transfer. There is a lot of data when you simulate rather than emulate.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  5. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Who are Sector397?
     
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  6. Yzangard

    Yzangard Registered

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    Well, good thing it makes you giggle but the argue "it keeps out kids/wreckers" (well, actually I would say "casual drivers") is more than very valid, it is a fact, just go to F1 2019 or ACC on random server, you'll see it is a very valid point.

    "it makes it more like real Motorsport as it's expensive too" : never heard anybody stating such a stupid thing.

    "if you played golf you would need clubs and a membership" : while being true, I don't see the point...

    The price is not a good thing but it have its good consequences. You were misled here or you are trying to mislead us.
     
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  7. Yzangard

    Yzangard Registered

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    rF2 NEEDS a competition system like iRacing. It is a must have. As long as there is no competition system, the sim will remain a niche one and more recent sims will take the place.

    I can't count the drivers on iRacing awaiting for this to happen, rF2 physics and tyres are so much better than it is not fun to talk about it anymore.

    Problems are :

    - you need official content, no mod.
    - you need to completely change your client / server architecture / infrastructure, it is beyond "bad".
    - you need stability and reliability, right now there are way too many technical issues that prevent it.
    - you need to enforce cockpit view (absolutely critical)

    It is just my opinion but without a real competition system (and VERY quickly now, you told us it would come with new UI and there is still absolutely NOTHING in this area) rF2 will die pretty soon or remain a "fan boys simulation".
     
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  8. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    I stand by my statements. I have heard those arguments time and time again. I am stating my viewpoint, agree or disagree as is your right. I am not trying to mislead anybody.
    Also there are mechanisms other than a high price to keep out wreckers such as organised leagues.
     
  9. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    Not sure if you are aware but cockpit view can be enforced in the server settings. It is used in most high end competitions.
     
  10. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    We have dx12?! :p
     
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  11. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I think LM24H Virtual was a step up. And honestly quite surpising. There was virtually almost no significant updating for rF2 since mid 2018, and recently there were some positive graphical updates, and Ui is ALMOST there and so on. I think S397 has been preparing for this step for a long time, and LeMans accelerated it by great deal, although probably slowed down few processes too. You can even see head of Luminis appearing this time in here https://www.studio-397.com/2020/06/celebrating-24h-lmv/, has it happened before ? I think at this point there are more powers behind S397 that are willing to provide more support (motorsport games organisation, SAFEIS organisation, racing events organisations, finally Luminis), hopefully not just to appear for once to share success for one event.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  12. Wayne Hutchison

    Wayne Hutchison Registered

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    Will the LeMans Virtual race bring a big bump in participation in rFactor 2? Immediately after NASCAR put iRacing on network TV in the USA their membership and participation nearly doubled over night. It's been a week now and rF2 participation hasn't moved at all https://www.iracingstats.com/pulse/ . Why is this? I too really like rF2 and race online regularly but I'm having trouble seeing what it does next to grow participation. At least in the Americas, name recognition is not high. The purchase price is low but you can't race online in very many leagues without purchasing additional content. And then there is the need to have and configure a server if you want to host races. Not to mention that the UI is not exactly intuitive. All of these are barriers to entry for the average person who might be interested in sim racing.
     
  13. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    Thanks I corrected that.
     
  14. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I think there are a few things that should have been handled different and it somehow feels like a lost opportunity to get more players into the sim - atleast right now. Why in gods name is there no official server running the Endurance stuff that was showcased in the broadcast? If people see that stuff on television they will ask themself: how can I do that stuff on my own if it is told to be easy and cheap to get into? For some reason there is nothing and that's all that they see once they boot up the sim. Sticky the official S397 servers up on top of the server list and you make it tremendously easier for people to get racing. Kunos has atleast a few official servers running so that people can easily get into their sims and I won't even mention iRacing. We can only hope that this will improve with the competition infrastructure, but I am not sure if it really does when such opportunities are easily dismissed.

    Don't get me wrong, I really liked Le mans 24 virtual and it will certainly bring new opportunities in terms of new partners for lisences and events in the future, but it's these little details that need to be dealt with better, if it is the content, the organisation or online racing or advertisement. I mean, S397 certainly showed that they can pull out some amazing stuff and learn from their mistakes, so I have my fingers crossed.
     
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  15. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    @Wayne Hutchison Good question, I think we could brainstorm hundred possible reasons why it is so, apart the stereotypical cliche "you need to buy content", "hard to set up" and "unintuitive UI".

    So whatever, just some possible causes:
    • Endurance racing is not a thing most would do for fun every evening;
    • The condition of rF2 is still not pleasing for most that are familiar with rF2;
    • There is still not enough mentioning, and positive mentioning of rF2 in various simracing comunities;
    • Modding is not mature yet, especially for cars with few great mods that aren't half done;
    • Official content is focused on only few kinds of cars, just needs more of INTERESTING stuff;
    • Simracers are generally getting quite occupied by some other sim, and changing is slow, especially in terms of whole communities;
    • Jump and go online racing still has no momentum;
    • Most content is behind rF2 capabilities, for physics, sound, graphics...;
    • rF2 often gets some silly representation that impresses deeply into minds of potential users, such as seeing Aston martin GT3 with terrible rim blur for over the year everywhere;
    • Community does seem to be celebrating everything rather equally, best of stuff does seem to often get blurred into everything else;
    • Although great for real time driving, rF2 is not as great at screenshots and videos, and those things sell big time. Hopefully that will get better as there were several great screenshots lately, and Lemans broadcast was very nice.
    • Development of rF2 felt rather static in perspective of casual user, which may not have induced too many temptations over the past, and one great virtual event, even like actual Le mans is not enough;
    • Loosing edge on rain features and functionality;
    • No one knows what competition system will really do;
    • No one cares about physics, even in rF2;
    • Everyone is interested in mods and online racing, hard to beat AC and iRacing;
    • Can't properly use blender for modding, and modding workflow is rather strange as there is no purpose made editor, RIP gJED;
    • rF2 guys are way too nice, no brutal fanboys :D a good thing actually lol;
    • Vittorio kept on derailing rF2 discord for way too long (a serious reason indeed);
    • Speaking of discord... little use of it, comparing to forums, not sure why it is prefered. IMO forums strenghtens comunities more.
    • rF2 initially has too few players, and I believe it is an important factor for players to get attracted, as higher numbers are just simply attractive. However it is a blessing not to have too many bandwagonners demanding to arcadify rF2, as they eventually will;
    • There isn't even one group of people in rF2 that would regularly do pickup racing online. I will always remember times, when there was "ALOOG-1" amd "Streetfigh" groups that provided great online activity almost every day, and cemented the community and helped out a lot to improve online racing culture, also with a help of minorating. A culture which is missing at rF2.
    • Billy Broadbent does not use rF2 very much;
    • Niels Heusinkveld doesn't seem to be much into rF2;
    • Empty Box, is off rF2 too.
    • Last but not least... compare navigating mods at Racedepartment to navigating mods at steam workshop... Of course RD hosts rF2 mods too, but nobody looks there. Ofcourse updating would be more complicated, but purely finding and sorting out mods is just so much better in RD;
    • Focus on eSports seems to be taking away from mere mortals like most of us are, that just want to race interesting stuff casually few hours per week or a day.
    • iRacing and NASCAR is mostly USA market, which is known to consume a lot. The rest of the world might be slower to jump into "hot stuff", but keep on it for longer, iR wave will probably go away just the same, is it still there in iR ?
     
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  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    • COVID 19 lockdown conditions are getting less strict in various places, which results in some less interest for indoors stuff.

      By the way, I just looked up... although participatiom might have doubled in their well established system (of which I have no knowledge)... There I have found interesting stats of new members. Looks less impressive in whole scale, but I guess a boost indeed:
      https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109334/covid-iracing-users/
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  17. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    Physics is the great asset of rF2 (associated in particular with S397 official content, and even better with laser tracks).

    It should be noted that out of all the "simracers", a small part actually have realism as a priority (physical engine in particular and realism of the content).

    This is why rF2 can never be the number 1.
     
  18. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Interesting that you find the mod management via RD better than the steam workshop integration. From my POV it doesn't get much easier than just entering some key words in steam workshop and having it installed and updated automaticly. It is also one of the reasons why I don't have that many AC mods installed even if it offers more. The copy and paste system, wich compeltely f*cks up the install requires procedures that are pretty much a relict of the last two decades of managing mods. At first glance it seems easier, but it gets a mess pretty fast. Steam workshop is the way forward and ArmA III shows this aswell. What I kind of miss though is that S397 missed the ship in adding the proper tags to content right from the start as it was done for ArmA. There is simply is no selection searching in folders like tracks, skins, cars etc. Might be that this comes with the new UI at one point but having this in the workshop allready would have been a good start and established a cleaner mod management for the community.
     
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  19. Love Guitars n Cars

    Love Guitars n Cars Registered

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    This needs to be done to the Workshop. The Workshop is great and can't get any easier to install stuff but needs organization like the tagging system Arma 3 uses for sure.


    rF2 Steam page is also not very good. No proper description of DLC, no videos or even track maps on their DLC, can't add DLC to your wish list.
     
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  20. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I just wanna know who Billy Broadbent is :p
     

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