Thrustmaster TS XW/PC racer FFB tuning (T300 too)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nieubermesch, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    First of all, I am not really any kind of expert on FFB, but since this is my second thrustmaster wheel (T300 before), and since I am really a dissatisfied and always picking up on something, wether it's wrong or right to do so, I wanted to make a sort of guide - quick thing - on some secrets to what TM panel settings actually do.

    Many people will tell you to put Damper and Spring on 0%. While it will not break your FFB and it actually can be as pure as an FFB as you can get this way (not totally sure myself), I think you will miss on some important aspects to tweak FFB to your liking that can actually make you enjoy your wheel much more. Right now my settings are as such, and this new TS XW I got really lets you know what this sliders do.

    Master: 97% (kinda arbitrary, I know)

    I really think you probably are very safe to crank FFB up on this bad boy. It has better cooling inside the box and the motor itself incorporates a cooling system (something T300 doesn't have). If you play around with it, 75% or so for me doesn't cut it. I got this wheel to feel those 6Nm and only close to 100% will you really get that, even if some linearity can be reduced (look into controller in user folder and probably try to reduce steering torque sensitivity as I think I had some success with it).

    Damper: 33%

    Now, damper!! This one GM always says to turn down (at least on a T300). Even there in Rfactor 2 there are merits to have it around 15/20%. It helps adding weight to the wheel on itself. The supposed counter effect on a T300 is that you will lose some weight transfer feeling. What is important for me on this setting, is that there seems to be linked to RFactor2 way it deals with tire grip. It actually helps you feel the tires better and since it reduces some of the lateral forces from the chasis and such, you actually can crank up the FFB higher, since the peak corner forces will be reduced, due to a more natural feeling of "scrubbing" the front tires, wich exists even when high grip loads happen. It helps you not saturate corner FFB to the point you need to lose some strenght on lower speeds, while still mantaining a pretty good weight transfer feeling on cars that have that.

    Spring: bellow 30% but still messing around with that.

    Spring is something that you would think is also the function of the damper to do, to dampen the response of the wheel and rotation speeds and accelarations. Think again! Spring is the actual one responsible for that! I think the TS XW can actually be to responsive for my taste (there are just some shortcomings to wheels and simulations). You should try to have some nice level to this, while you mantain a good balance of good speed, but where you feel under certain states, that a steering wheel wouldn't turn so fast in the real world and this actually lets you control the car also a lot better. It doesn't seem to mess with much of anything with weight transfer forces for me, at least in Rfactor2. Have to say this settings also applly pretty well to Asseto Corsa, but I dont play that anymore.

    Well, hope you give this a try, and I don't really remember having come across some of the findings I am sharing here with this post.

    Hope I don't end up sounding like and idiot, so sorry if I waste your time.

    Also, just to say rFactor2 is just the best!!
     
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  2. regged

    regged Registered

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    I agree, there is a common misconception that spring and damper should be set to 0.
     
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  3. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yeah, I hear it a lot. It can be alright, but there is an element of personalization and potential maximization of the wheel that is missing doing that.
     
  4. jepeto

    jepeto Registered

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    i have a ts-xw and really enjoy in report of t300rs i had
     
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  5. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Not sure what you mean. Did this help, do you agree? Hope so
     
  6. jepeto

    jepeto Registered

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    personnaly, i put 100 % on all parameters in control panel, and if i decrease some, no really good
     
  7. jepeto

    jepeto Registered

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    sorry, for answer, i try your set up
     
  8. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Oh, no problem. I am actually still messing around. It seems to also be car dependent this settings. I can't quite get a definitive result. I also had to just delete my controller file and just select TS XW from Rfactor pre defined as I actually messed that up a lot.
     
  9. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    People playing with this base. For the love of everything it's sacred, leave minimum torque at 0!!! I have been over a week trying to figure out if my wheel was already going bad (2 weeks old) and at the end, I just loaded up a TS XW profile on Rf2 and everything is how it was. No reason to put it up. It muddies the road texture instead of enhacing it, not sure why. And high load corners get really saturated with that at 2 or 3%. It also seems to remove a lot of understeer effects. Just a word of caution for those who might buy this or starting rf2 from other sims and try to raise this up.
     
  10. jepeto

    jepeto Registered

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    agree to help us, ts xw team, to find the best controll of the wheel
    personnally i put 6 nm on json controller like maximum torque
     
  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    The only effect of "Steering torque capability" is to make the FFB weaker. At 6Nm it won't even do that in any normal car in rF2.
     
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  12. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yeah, I find it odd that Fanatec profiles have it matching the supposed maxes of the wheels. Altough I don't think I feel anything different on changing that with thrustmaster wheels.
     
  13. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Update:

    Really feeling going past 90% is a bad idea. It seems you can actually put more ffb in game then you can with 100%, probably due to some stall forces when too high on this motor just kinda of reduces the forces before you reach this max. At 88/87 Master it seems I can have a bigger multiplier in Rf2 wich gives better feel at lower speeds but at high loads it retains better clarity all around and forces actually can feel stronger than 100% due to this saturated effect.
     
  14. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I've just found out a very important setup configuration no one seems to really know or talk about! It seems Constant Force on TM Panel actually is responsible for weight transfer feeling!! I am pretty sure some here will find quite refreshing to know that. I certainly feel some cars FFB feel floaty because of this and I think configuring this can really help. The downside is that you can't really configure this on the fly and adjust on a car basis :confused:
     
  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    If you drive a car in rF2 that has a nominal max at 2Nm, and drive that with your 6Nm wheel, that setting being correct will allow you to feel the true forces without needing to adjust anything yourself. So it makes sense to have it right just in case.

    However, all the standard content is at least 7.5Nm, so on that content the setting won't do anything unless your wheel is stronger than that.
     
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  16. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yeah, I get it, thanks. What do you think about chenging constant force on the TM profile? Could it just be placebo by me? I actually find that I like just a subtle taste of weight transfer in the wheel, rather prefer the raw effects of the tires, so if it proves correct I think it is useful.
     
  17. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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  18. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I do know a bit of French but it's kind of long to go trough it all as it's slower to read for me. I think there are some misconceptions when it comes to tuning the wheels though. It's good to go by feel to be honest.
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I thought you did get it, but then you said it was odd. There's a lot of confusion around this setting so it's worth spelling it out again.

    For the CP settings, and in reference to your more recent post above, this is extremely subjective. I think it would help to know exactly how FFB is generated - maybe some developer types can add something here, I have memories of inspecting FFB commands live possibly using a DirectX SDK which showed clearly that only 1 or 2 mechanisms were in use, but more knowledge of how they're modified by the CP settings would be very useful.

    Key is whether spring and damping are controlled by the game when enabled or are a "dumb" driver addition only.

    I suspect modifying constant and periodic away from 100% changes the raw game output (therefore away from "realistic") but how they do it is an important missing detail. Even if the game sends different information for those two, it's difficult to imagine a particular aspect of FFB (like weight transfer vs tyre grip) will be isolated in either one. They could just be filtering the incoming signal (low pass and high pass) in which case what you're feeling would make some sense (since weight transfer is relatively slow) but would still just be adjusting to what you feel is best rather than what the raw physics is doing - and adjusting between cars would just be masking the actual differences present between those cars.

    I actually thought rF2 wouldn't use periodic forces, but can't deny that reducing it to 0 turns off FFB, so the jury is out for me. Need more info.
     
  20. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I read once about it but I didn't really understood it. I mean odd but just because studio 397 actually have set those correctly for Fanatec but not TM, even though it doesn't make a difference, I guess. But sorry for the confusion.

    Yeah, I can only have a vague idea of how FFB works and I am sure even if you dont know a lot you know more than me, but sometimes it takes a little bit of an obcessive mind like mine to not leave any stone untouched, even if I make a mess of it something good can come from it :D:D.

    Yeah, I tested periodic off and it seemed responsible for bumps type feedback on the TM panel testing, and when I went to mess around in Rf2 I realized that periodic is being used by Rf2 and even went and I read a better explanation at TM sites. I saw that G force is sometimes put under Constant and since I believe I am feeling a difference on how weight transfer feels, than I correlated it with that. Keep in mind I didn't really turned it off, is more like a tuning thing and I like it because the wheel will tend to feel more uniform troughout the steering and a bit tighter. Loses some aspects but I like that, so yeah, preference is the name of the game.

    About damper and srping I guess I don't mind if it might be a bit canned, as I like to have some and I think it doesn't really drown out the rf2 FFB too much even if indeed is a "dumb" driving addition only :confused:
     

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