Thoughts about improvements in modding support.

Discussion in 'Modding' started by LeStrat, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. LeStrat

    LeStrat Member

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    I would like to share what I think about support to modders and how it could be improved.

    I have been working for a long time as an SAP developer first and admin in the later years and I've always thought that SAP error handling should be a must. Yo have in-application extremely detailed error handling, in-application log-analysis and millions of text file logs which help you to find the root cause of what's going on.

    I've been modding for rFactor2 just a couple of months, but I have found that error handlig, at least from the modder point of view is almost inexistent. Today I got CTD both in ptool and ttool, I am sure that it happened because of the files I have modified (chassis.ini and .tgm respectively) but because of the lack of logs I don't know where's my mistake.

    I also find that documentation for the apps we have been provided to be able to make mods for rFactor isnt's sufficient at all. Therefore I don't know what will I need to correrct so my chassis and tyres can work properly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2013
  2. Daniel Huia

    Daniel Huia Registered

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    I agree 100%. I have posted questions and get no response from neither admin or those in the know and it is both disheartening and frustrating. Disheartening because it makes me feel as tthough either it was a dumb question or one that no-one could be bothered to answer. Frustrating because I feel stuck and unable to move forward until I resolve the current issue.

    I was actually considering my next thread/question being a pleading for a mentor to assist with car modding. Just someone that I can say 'Hey I am trying to do this and I this is happening any suggestions'.
     
  3. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    I think we would need extensive suggestion thread for ISI of just modding in mind. There are A LOT other issues as well, together with bug-tracking you mentioned. The whole system would need complete overhaul to be really functional, to get even into rF1 level of functionality. There is no need of making modding harder than it is.

    Go for it, at least I could try to help as much as I can :)
     
  4. LeStrat

    LeStrat Member

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    Having just a popup with the error exception would help us a lot, and I'm sure rFactor2 internally handles exceptions in a proper manner, but instead of that we get a CTD without any kind of error log.

    I would need a mentor too, at least for the new physics engine features (tyres and flex chassis). If anyone is interested on giving some light on it...

    I am also making a brief guide with everything I'm learning while making my mods, once I have learned what I think is interesting for the community, I will release it so everyone can use it.
     
  5. freew67

    freew67 Registered

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    You guys need to remember this is still in beta. Stuff changes from build to build. Some minor, some major, either or its still a change. Outside of the basics, it will be hard to write detailed documents when with each build that doc might have to edited. People forget ISI is not a huge company. Outside of Tim, you wont see to many dev's posting. My guess is their plates are fairly full. Not every question is going to get answered. Either folks miss it, its been asked before, or sometimes people just might not know. I have been around rF since day 1 and to hear folks say they are making modding harder doesnt make sense to me. When rF1 was released, we got a max file of a car and a section of track. Nothing else that I can remember. Thing is, we all managed to get it working. Ive been at this for over 7+ years. For new folks there is more docs/tuts now than ever. Once rF2 goes gold, I would assume new/better detailed docs will pop up. For some of your issues, rF1 information will work also.

    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/4347-rFactor-2-won-t-start!!?p=52153&viewfull=1#post52153 This post here talks about how to get the trace report to work (I used it in dev not single). While its not bullet proof, most of the time if there is an error when the game crashes it will spit out what might have caused it.
     
  6. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    sorry mate..but not according to ISI ...apparently we havnt been in beta for about 6 months now
     
  7. LeStrat

    LeStrat Member

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  8. Daniel Huia

    Daniel Huia Registered

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    That would be great what is the best way to communicate with you? Model side of things is all good just need someone that can teach me how all the files relate to one another and what elements need to altered to suit the models etc. Your help would be greatly appreciated.
     
  9. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    I think this forum would be best bet, because then also other newcomer modders could learn from the stuff. And I definitely don't know everything, so there are other people as well that can help.
     
  10. Daniel Huia

    Daniel Huia Registered

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    Hmm I might just start a new thread so as to not hijack the meaning of this one.

    Here is a link to the thread I will use solely from now on instead of creating different threads for different aspects hopefully may serve as a good reference point for others. Nice noobish question to kick it off as I am unsure if I have amended all that I should have.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2013
  11. Joel.Brown

    Joel.Brown Registered

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    We don't need more documentation, we need documentation that mortals can understand. For example, TGM files and the parameters that take weeks just to figure out what they do. The terse little comments next to them are virtually worthless just like the explanations in their Quick Start Tutorial. This is a great platform, no question ISI is doing it right, but damn it's hard to build a mod with it and rFactor2 has made that even harder by a power of 2.

    Some simpler comments and explanations would help tremendously.

    I hope I'm not a total idiot. I worked as a computer engineer for over 20 years before doing chassis kinematics and tire analysis in the upper tiers in NASCAR for several teams. I don't think I'm the only person struggling, I hope not anyway.
     

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