The Unrealistically Difficult Real Cars Handling Thread... or just incorrect real life physics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mantasisg, Aug 16, 2020.

  1. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Oh yeah, no grip and then max grip the moment after - typical elitist physics. The physics of rain is so bad and cars are so impractical for anything but optimum conditions, race control has to chicken out. Amazing sport.
     
  2. ATQ

    ATQ Registered

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    Weird aerodynamic glitch in reality (everyone recovered from the incident, btw).
     
  3. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Literally every pro driver in a row here lost it... I can't think of any other explanation than physics being way too difficult.

     
  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Poor guy thinks he ran out of talent, while in reality it is just bad physics modelling

     
  5. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    I was just about to link this video lol. He needs to increase the caster in the setup menu to give his ffb more self aligning torque, and also remove the deadzone by increasing the minimum torque. Clearly he does not know about soft rear ARB and min pressures. Noob.
     
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  6. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    "If FFB worked properly I would have never lost it"
    GamerMuscle

     
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  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Badly designed car, does nonsense, driver did nothing wrong.
     
  8. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Ah, it doesn't have the special S397 tires! That's what happened!! :D
     
  9. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Never ever properly working car would fail such enthusiastic driver in such way:
     
  10. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    The .cam file could also use some work :p
     
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  11. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I just can not stop being amazed by how crap real life physics is, it is bad. Plus bad FFB.
     
  12. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    I can't get over how much this clip looks like rF2 with the way the car handles. Looks too hard to drive, real life physics must be broken. (A.I also way too slow).
     
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  13. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Terrible ! Would never want to drive it. Too powerful, chassis too soft, tire not enough grip and at the same time too much grip, brakes aren't up to specification, probably also requires actual muscle and joints work to drive it... not for me. Also the noise it makes, I hate that noise, they should swap electric motor, it just sounds too masculine and toxic.
     
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  14. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Why must rF2 copy incorrect real life physics ?
    rF2:
    Real life:

    And of course IRL, just like in sim it is never a driver error, but something else is at fault.

    Another example of unrealistic toe link failure:

    toe link failure, but complete spin instead of tankslap:

    3:48 multiple toe link failures again:

    again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvgkQ_HZxLE
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  15. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Riccardo drifting fPro, oh no what was that, a broken toe linkage ?

     
  16. FordGT40

    FordGT40 Registered

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    How realistic is it to watch a youtube video and put yourself into the drivers shoes and feel what he is feeling? I mean a youtube video tells you alot but not everything like smell and g forces but without g forces and smell you can still fill in those blanks later in the notepad.... Niels heusinkveld did it or does it brilliantly.
     
  17. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Yes, but not with rF2 tire model. I know some more high profile physics gurus, truly at the end of their game, who decided they don't have to bother with rF2, and that they have reached an absolute final form of physics modeling for sims. Perhaps they feel bad to be rookie again, do worse for a while, or too old-school to solve new-school problems. Usually their argument is that this model does not go as well with data. Of course it is easier when you only have to plug in data, skip bunch of thinking + testing and risk of little error. At the end, they are using old fashion models that can't replicate nature of tire in nearly as exact way which, frankly, is equivalent to error.
     
  18. FordGT40

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    You sure it is more accurate and not just fancy on the outside?
     
  19. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I think the "more accurate" argument is allways going to be a deadend argument in such discussions while there is alot more to it than just comparing graphs of slip angles and how they correlate to data. Recently there have been discussions on RD where a few guys explained how they hacked the physics model to plugin their own physics model in AC and how that would correlate better than the rF2 tyre model leading to statements like "AC has the best physics model on earth right now". That's AC btw and not ACC. And while that can be perfectly true and valid for that particular car that they modeled (Oreca FLM 09 in that special case) it allways leaves out some important facts. How do those people know, who are used to AC and their own plugged in physics engine, that people who are very firm with the rF2 physics model would not be able to replicate a car model that is atleast as good if not better? Then comes the issue of "correlation" itself and how it actually works and that more complex and sophisticated models become better and better the more data gets available and the more tests you run. The same way I could argue that AC wouldn't be my choice for a high down prototype car as things like radiators and their influence on cooling and drag aren't modeled properly in AC. How much margin for error do you get for that particular issue compared to let's say a slip angle curve for a tyre that correlates a bit better in AC? A sim car isn't just the tyre - eventhough that one is very important obviously - but the result of many different variables.

    At the end there are perfect valid reasons to have both models for different cases and the fact that rF2 still offers high fidelity solutions for consumer software vehicles and track models that don't need hundreds of iterations and core engine changes to offer plausible and believable vehicle handling after allmost a decade speaks for itself in my opinion. Ofcourse feeling is a subjective thing but rF2 feels for me the closest to driving a real car and correlates best to that experience. That said, mileage may vary. That you feel the side wall of the tyre scrubbing the sidewalks at historic Monaco through a low budget wheel like a DFGT is still a great achievement in my book and no other sim does it with the same connectivity and fidelity. There is more to it than simply being fancy on the outside.
     
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  20. FordGT40

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