The .tgm, and +ttool

Discussion in 'Car Modding' started by Tim Bennett, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. Tim Bennett

    Tim Bennett Registered

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    Info related to this thread.

    The DT Multiplier will fix most crashing/hanging issues with the ttool. Try lowering this value if you are having problems getting through tests or crashing ttool.

    The TBC is no longer a player controlling tyre file, the .tgm controls everything except for initial wheel diameter, AI, and starting temps.

    Information about tyre design can be found here;
    http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/saf...HS-810-561.pdf

    More tyre data related to Pneumatic
    http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/saf...HS-810-561.pdf

    http://f1-dictionary.110mb.com/tires.html

    Some pictures of a tyre cut up to see the contruction.
    http://jtbo.pp.fi/images/album/rfactor/real_tires/

    Young modulus, Possion Ratio, Destiny, Thermal Conductivity and Specific Heat for the materials you can find even on Wiki or here http://www.matbase.com/index.php

    Wiki on radial tires, also has some information on construction.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_tire
    More on construction: http://www.tiresfirst.com/page-tire-construction_65.php

    Here is easy to understand explanation what makes radial tire radial and so on:
    http://www.motorera.com/dictionary/bi.htm

    All information was pulled from this thread by other users posts(credit to them), there is a ton of info here to start to help us understand things.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2012
  2. Niels_at_home

    Niels_at_home Registered

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    I have no doubt that Terence made a hugely impressive tire model. It is probably not even fully finished either. The beta phase will be critical to help us actually understand how slipping and gripping works.

    The downside of a complex model can be that its too hard to work with. If each new tire geometry takes hours of computing to generate the TGM file, thats an off putting thought! In the time required to make 10 tires, you could have methodically tested 100 tires with a more simple model, and that could easily result in a more realistic experience.

    The upside of a complex model can be that it is so good, that it will make great tires all the time that have very believable max slip angles, slip ratios, combined slip behaviour, heating, wear etc etc.. But it takes a hugely impressive model for this to work without 'tweaking'. And if tweaking takes a long time..

    Despite not really knowing anything about the model I think it might well be a bit of an unpolished diamond. Lets hope in the end it will be an impressive model that is fast and easy to work with, because only that combination leads to great mods! :) I'm looking forward to reading a bit more about it!
     
  3. Tim Bennett

    Tim Bennett Registered

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    Agreed Niels, the ease of making the tire deform, and how accurately it does so is nothing short of genius. I'm highly impressed with what i have seen so far and have no problems with spending major time on tire testing to get a realistic feel. Hopefully we can share at least some early knowledge about this model and give isi good feedback.
     
  4. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    Well, I'm a bit scarred when I look at its parameters... have to start looking around for slick tyres to cut them through and analyse their structure :D

    If ISI could provide some advices about what material parameters to choose (as our base) for what type of tyres, that could be very useful. I'm happy we were moved forward so much. The downside is, we have to work on tyres a "little" longer than before ;)
     
  5. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Actually I'm not so sure about that we need to work longer, for me it looks like that it is now easier to make working tire, we don't need to spend tens of hours in editing TBC file parameters anymore and test driving those changes for hours and hours, collecting data and analyzing that, now we set parameters run program and safe tire, well more or less so.

    So I think that if we put time spend computing tire next to time spend driving and analyzing, we may now end up winning some time here, no need to do testing by driving hundreds of laps anymore.

    Or then I have misunderstood something, happens all the time.

    I got 3759.6644 from last test in tutorial, maybe it is good? :D

    Well, some clever guys soon figure it out and hopefully tell us stupid ones which way it is best to start :)
     
  6. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    4. Type 30 under 'iterations per frame'

    After that, the tool crashes for me ... any ideas?
     
  7. patryksok.

    patryksok. Registered

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    Try run as administrator :)
     
  8. Bill Malicoat

    Bill Malicoat Registered

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    Maybe I am missing something, does anyone know how to get the actual model dimensions for tires in the ttool program?
     
  9. patryksok.

    patryksok. Registered

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    No...of course you can edit geometry in notepad :p We need some geometry generator tool or something like that ;)
     
  10. Tamas Pongracz

    Tamas Pongracz Registered

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    Without run as administrator, the game is crashing. But if i start the program with administrator, the tool is starting, but when i type the tgm file name, and load after select the "Display 3D" the program crash again. :confused:
     
  11. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Did you make that new folder named ptool into dir where rfactor launcher is? Also it is needed to copy .tgm file to that folder, tire tool is not able to really open file otherwise, but failing to open it does not give errors, only numbers are not changing when loading,

    If file is not succesfully loaded, then tire tool seem to crash almost any click of buttons that actually cause some action.
     
  12. Tamas Pongracz

    Tamas Pongracz Registered

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    Thanks jtbo!

    Yes, i did the ptool dir, and i put into the tgm file. I did only one mistake, because a did this dir, into the User/doc/rFactor2 dir, not the another rFactor2 dir, where is the launcher. Thanks again!
     
  13. Slimjim

    Slimjim Registered

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    Niels, i have done testing with the Formula Renault in the Dev section of the game using your older tire files,
    with some of my tweaks added to try to improve the handling of the FR3.5
    not touching the .TGM file, only the TCB, and it's made a huge difference, and felt more connected to the road..
    the slip angles do not seem to be a whole lot different, but they do have a different DropoffFunction=
    reverting back to a rF1 style you've done seems to work better, for this car anyway..
    you know where to find me if you need anymore testing results i have done.
     
  14. Niels_at_home

    Niels_at_home Registered

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    The weird thing is the new PDF says the TBC is only for AI, no crucial slip/grip things are used by the player; thats all in the TGM :S

    Perhaps some more things are still taken from the TBC or there is some placebo effect going on? We know too little about the new file, and how / if its mixed with the old..
     
  15. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    So if you change the slip curves for example in the .tbc file, you can't notice it while driving?
     
  16. Bill Malicoat

    Bill Malicoat Registered

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    That is the way I read it too. Only uses wheel diameter and initial temperature from the tbc file.
     
  17. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Easy to test, put some insane ridiculous values to tbc that can't be missed when driving, if nothing happens, then no tbc is used for that value, if there is clear change enough ridiculous value should show it.

    Treat software as if it would be pinata, poke it, hit it, try to make it crackle and pop, that is my method :D

    When knowing which is used and which is not, then it is simple to start some developing work.

    One important guideline, if it did not make clear change, multiply by 10, 100 or thousands, eventually something will happen.
     
  18. Kevin Frazier

    Kevin Frazier Registered

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    not working here either
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2012
  19. fanlebowski

    fanlebowski Registered

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    yes, it's a placebo effect ^^

    change the grip or a heating value, and you'll see there is no effect when -you- drive.

    i agree with niels. 2hours to be able to make an ingame test is very very long, and it will be a problem.

    but this problem can be reduced if we are able to make a lot of tests in ttool. at this moment what i see who need to be improved or comments :

    - have a line by line comments about the ttool parameters

    - find a way to be able to make some "simples" tests of deflection. about the radial it looks like ok, but find lat and long seems to be not easy.

    - give a -lot of- tyres examples at the beginning. when i say beginning i mean ASAP actually ^^ GT, rally, openwheel, etc.

    - when we are lucky, we find some pacejka data. all ISI can do to help modder to have a global view as the pacejka model will be appreciated ;)


    cheers
     
  20. ArnoldWong

    ArnoldWong Registered

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    I have done my set of GT500 tyres(TGM), but how can I change the wear in the tgm file? =S
    Or is it still taking the value from tbc?
     

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