The Right FFB??

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vegaguy5555, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    Yes. This might be another area I need to take in consideration. Thanks!

    My friend was complaining about a weightless snap in AC when in a drift and I can feel that now that he has pointed it out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  2. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Another thing to try in AC is to enable "Gyro" if you haven't already; it can act as a dampener as well as a steering-stabilizer. It's probably better suited to DD-wheels but, worth a try and might be helpful for drifting where the snap is too strong.
     
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  3. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    Yes! I did enable Gyro and it did help a lot.
     
  4. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Ever since i upgraded from the Fanatec 911 GT2 to the CSWv2 i just can't get the ffb right in rF2 :( it was (dare i say) better with the GT2? Why?
    The Formula cars feel light until you hit the brakes (it vibrates like mad) and go on the grass. There is a lot of progression but it feels too light at low speed and quite heavy at speed but it just feels far to light at low speed, same low to mid speed lightness with Gt3 but really rough kurbs :(
    If i raise the for on wheel i get clipping.
    rF2 is starting to go from my favourite to, well, not my favourite :(
    I have it pretty right in AMS, is there a way to adjust realfeel (if it even exists in rF2) like AMS of rF?
    I hope someone has a fix for the v2?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  5. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Have you raised your steering torque minimum accordingly?
     
  6. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    And turned all the bullshit Fanatec fake functions off?
     
  7. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Steering torque min is on 4.0 (wheel just wobbles slightly at a stand still) and by Fanatec fake shit , do you mean SHO , ABS , LIN , DEA and DRI (all 0 or off) if so yes but have FOR at 100 and DPR and SPR at 100 . SN is on Aut and FF is on 65-75 .
     
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  8. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    I can't speak for Fanatec but for Logitech Profiler, default values for spring and damping are 100% while it is widely accepted among forums that those values should be set at 0%.

    I asked some time ago for official FFB guide which minimally would specify for which profiler settings the default controller.json has been defined.

    I would have expected that the with default hardware profiler configuration, the output would replicate the input as calculated and sent by the game engine. It would be nice to know if this happens with most common wheels and how to set it up that way otherwise. Apparently for Logitech it is not the case or at least it is how I interprete it by having non zero damper and spring settings. IMO it is a heritage from the times where game's FFB was crap and needed to be modified in order to make them more realistic.

    The lack of clarity in this area make FFB a dark area where nobody seems to face with a methodical and scientific approach.
     
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  9. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    There is no methodical scientific approach because 99% of RF2 is not a race pilot and don't know what should expect from FFB, multiply this by the number of different hardware avaiable...
    this is a can of worm on his own
     
  10. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Using Direct-drive wheels has taught me a few things and some of these can benefit most FFB systems. More information on these subjects can be found in various forums and I know the Official AC forums cover them quite a bit.

    In many cases, clipping may be responsible for poor FFB and many people don't realize that there are multiple ways to induce clipping; the primary ones are hardware-clipping (where the FFB output exceeds the steering-systems practical working-range) and soft-clipping (Game-FFB output signal clips thereby causing unavoidable clipping down stream).

    Soft-clipping affects all hardware, even the most powerful direct-drive wheels and very few FFB guides address one of the most common causes - perhaps because it just wasn't considered as being that important due to less-precise hardware or its generally assumed that game developers tune output for best results. Direct-drive hardware just makes these issues far more obvious.

    Some titles have FFB output reduced to avoid soft-clipping but, others may clip a lot at 100% game-FFB output. Use of a clip-meter is generally a good way to gauge behavior but, accuracy may not be great in all cases. Many users of mainstream hardware may be running everything at 100% (or more in AC) and are experiencing severe clipping - both in soft and hardware; reducing just the hardware-driver output alone may not improve FFB at all.

    FFB linearity is another way to improve FFB with less-precise wheels; Direct-drive wheels already have very linear output but, it's very useful for more common steering systems.

    Minimum force settings can reduce looseness around center and compress the FFB output into a smaller range for use with main-stream steering-systems. Direct-drive systems generally don't need min-force unless there is excessive looseness or the user desires greater FFB detail within the broader range of effects but, it's effectiveness varies between titles.

    Dampening: with Direct-drive wheels, we use dampening to control several aspects of the FFB. DD-wheels can have extreme oscillation and dampening can reduce that tendency to a certain point but, it may not be the best way.

    Dampening can also slow down the wheels response to make corrections more manageable and it can remove harshness where the FFB feels too grainy or the detail is too strong. The ideal amount of dampening can produce a great connected rubber-tire feeling with great detail throughout the output range when tuned successfully.

    As a general rule, I find it's best to start tuning with no dampening and then use sparingly if needed after having made all other FFB adjustments.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
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  11. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    There's your problem! Set DPR & SPR to 0 (or, as in my admittedly bizarre personal preference, set them to 10).

    SPR is the non-game generated spring force, so it takes max force to turn the steering wheel even when the game is not generating a FFB signal. DPR is the non-game generated damper force which makes the FFB mushy because it is damping out all that SPR. With both DPR & SPR enabled on the CSWv2, you're taking away motor energy from the overall FOR available and the FFB effects go non-linear in a bad way.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
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  12. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    I left dampening at 100 in the control panel and played with it on the wheel but felt no difference .lol Noob here . Probably made a huge difference but i'm to Noobish to feel it .lol
    I'll turn it off in the control panel tomorrow and see .
    I can definitely see clipping in the pedal-ffb plugin during hard braking into hard corners but if i turn it lower there is next to to feel and the wheel is so light ?
    I'm beginning to question if my CSWv2 is defective.:( as i can hear and feel quite a bit of rattle (for loss of better description) . But really only in rF2 .
    If im in the pits or have the wheel off and turn hard and fast from side to side it is smooth and quiet so i'm pretty sure the wheel is normal (touch wood)
     
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  13. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Nice , now i have a definitive-positive thing to try , Thanks all , keep opinions coming , everything helps (unless its not helpful ,of coarse)lol.
     
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  14. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    In AC the clipping app shows I'm within clipping but it's obvious I'm missing more then half the FFB compared to rF2.

    I notice each title is so different. I turned up gain in Pcars and got some FFB in the straights and overall more FFB now, which would just cause clipping in AC or rF2.

    And hearing about brake differences between peddles bases is very interesting. AC is the only sim that basically has a light switch for brakes. You can hear it in all my AC videos. If I add curve there is more or less no brakes. And no I'm not running down AC this is just how it works for me right now.

    It sounds like we are all experiencing these sims a little different for sure. I'm sure one day there will be a better way to calculate all the hardware and how it effects each other.

    What is AMS?
     
  15. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    My v2 rattles in rF2 which can be heard in the Cobra Nordschleife video. It is also smooth when off.
     
  16. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    AMS , YOU NEED AMS IN YOUR LIFE .
    Automobilista , based on rF1 but updated and modified .(better)(subjective)lol
    Then you need this
    http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/historic-gt-naming-update-for-ams.11637/
    If you like old GT cars ,which if you dont you will after this ,lol
    Its a bit of a prick to get working but its so worth it ,trust me (a complete stranger).
    This is the page with the download ,
    http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/historic-gt-naming-update-for-ams.125234/

    This is rF1 but looks a bit better in AMS
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
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  17. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    This looks very interesting!! Thanks!!:)

    A new toy is always good!!:p
     
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  18. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    It's on sale now (Steam) and i would advise getting the season pass . It's basically free at the moment .
     
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  19. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    I have it down loading now!

    I have talked to people in the past years that got ridiculed by guys in AC when asking about the icy slide. Most of them would end up getting a refund and going with Automobilista. I never did like the way these guys were treated.
     
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  20. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    There two downloads in Steam. Automobilista 17.4 gigs and a beta 17.4 gigs as well. I got the season pass. Is that what beta is?
     

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