The rFactor 2 Blog | Cars (Part 1 of 2)

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, Nov 17, 2021.

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  1. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    the most sad is AMS2 and rF2 are the both low players count in steam, and they could work together to give the best game ever made....No regret I hope. I can't stop thinking about if all the content of REIZA was in rF2 and not in the Madness engine...THe life is about choice, some are good, some are bad.
     
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  2. DucMan888

    DucMan888 Registered

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    I agree, love to the historic cars. But perhaps why we don't see more vintage cars is today's series are closer to spec racing than in those good old days, therfore less variance?
     
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  3. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    the MSG takeover was in May. I seriously doubt they would have been able to negotiate and buy licenses, and then get all the tracks laser scanned and cars done between then and now.
     
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  4. TheGame316

    TheGame316 Registered

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    Without going into all the non-answers and padding, one thing stood out to me.
    Transparent icon screenshots.
    Almost 2 years ago, the modding community asked for the tool that was not "ready for prime time" and still no tool.
    But today you share a "little trick" that could have been given 2 YEARS ago! Why was this not shared back then, saving the time of some members of the community to work out convoluted ways to obtain these screenshots. All props to those members, but when such a simple alternative exists it baffles me....

    You want these blogs, and even the roadmaps taken seriously, start providing some transparency and direction.
     
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  5. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    yes and the UI was started 3 years ago, was released last year...See you next year, to see what you will say. The main problem is to say there is no problem, and rF2 is full of problems, but they admit it, it's already a good start.
    UE5 should be better for me, with a new project. Motosport Game has the money to the start a new project.
    Let's see how will be 2022, can rF2 be saved ? I hope, cause I like the FFB, but many games, and particulary ACC will take again massively the new players....
    It's really sad for me to see rF2 decline...
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
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  6. Christian Wolter

    Christian Wolter Registered

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    Thanks for the blog. What concerns me a bit more than the answers is the statement that some developers have left the studio. When the new positions were advertised, it was said that this was just to grow the studio. Can we have a little more info here? Thanks
     
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  7. philman

    philman Registered

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    Thank you for all the accurate answers to the questions (including mine) that were asked.

    Like many other RF2 users, I am very concerned about the decrease in interest from players.
    One of the reasons is probably the lack of reactivity of the programmers to solve the bugs reported by the community. Another reason is the lack of novelties and the slowness with which the updates are distributed. It's hard to understand that after being bought by a big company, things haven't improved. S397 has probably been a victim of talent theft. Today, our society is demanding more and more speed and reactivity, and it is therefore urgent to recruit the necessary people to ensure the game's continuity.
    Just a quick word about the hand animations on the gearshift. In your answer to this question, you say that there is an excessive gap between the player's action on the gearshift and the action on the screen. Of course it can't be otherwise and all simulations that implement these movements are victims of this lag. The only way to minimize this time is to consider not the action on the gearshift but rather on the clutch pedal. Another method is to consider the engine rotation speed and to anticipate the action on the gearshift (I think this is what is used in AC).
     
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  8. Christian Wolter

    Christian Wolter Registered

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    If rfactor loses players then it's not only because of the existing bugs (I even dare to say that it's not the primary reason). Because if you play other games (and I have installed like so many here everything that is even Racing "Sim" Game here), then you realize very quickly that every other simulation has its problems (many exist even here for ages). Maybe game A doesn't have the problem that bothers you the most and therefore seems "better" but that's not the fact. No matter what you take any game can annoy me and significantly so (I'm taking ACC out of this as it only presents one series and is self-contained, that's not a fair comparison and even there VR is poor). With many I've talked to, rfactor is simply too hard and that's both in getting into the game (game settings, car setup, etc) and driving/physics. Because that's one of the truths in simracing, everyone wants absolute realism but when they get it they prefer to play Forza on the XBOX. rfactor for me still has the best driving experience and is still worth being driven by anyone who loves racing games and delivers certain experiences that no other game can deliver, especially after all the great content has been released. The Motorsport Games purchase, from my point of view, can not yet be felt so soon after completion (both in content and in the quality of updates and the frequency of them), here I think we still have to show some patience. That being said, if at some point rfactor has a user base as large as the games currently on the front ranks, then Studio 397 has done something wrong and most likely removed the essence of rfactor, because a top title it can never become due to its characteristics.
     
  9. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I agree with your arguments, but if rF2 had:
    • Updated content in the demo version, valid to check the real computer specs.
    • A more robust packages system (without the error of "missing content").
    • 4 good base setups per car, as it was suggested in the blog (fast, medium, slow and water).
    • The old slides to make simple setups (as rF1 had).
    rf2 would be much more easy to new users and the first experience would chage a lot.
    For sure that i forget something.

    IMO, the problem of the new user aren't the problems in the tyre model, drive train, etc.
    The problem is that when you install the program, you have to config it (that has been improved a lot with the wizard), then you want to choose a car or track, but are hidden in the little text in the middle of the "Race Tab". When you find the cars or tracks, these are showed in a strange way with a slider. If the default view were the "List", that would be totally different, because eis far more intuitive.
    Then you go to race and enter to the garage interface.
    You go to "Setups" and this is so complicated for the new user that overpass him and he does nothing.
    At this moment, the new user has been 30 min, go to track and finds a car difficult to drive in a totally green track.

    What i've said is a description of what has happened to many known people that we have helped to use rF2.
     
  10. juninho tilambucano

    juninho tilambucano Registered

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    do you plan to use the bykolles released by ASM on official competitions and on the competition system?

    a few months ago it was mentioned the UI needed to be updated to support ratings, how is this development going?

    will we have anytime soon an oval rules plugin that works on CS?

    is there any plan to launch a f2 car spec so it can match with the fpro? (fpro is very brutal for beginners)

    is there any new electric car on the plans?

    can we expect a bop update on the gt3 with the new bmw m4 gt3? if will already have goodyear tyre data?
     
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  11. juninho tilambucano

    juninho tilambucano Registered

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    is there any plan to improve the permormance on endurance races? (especially on VR)
     
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  12. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    +1

    Rain + lot of AI or real simracers opponents + multiclass + day/night cycle

    Optimise VR yes also

    Make a very very performance mode for rain (very optimize and very low graphics or statics graphics)
     
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  13. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    Off topic about ACC,
    ACC is GT3, GT4, Porsche cup car, and soon Lamborghini Trofeo and GT2 or GT1 (with full official liveries)
    There are 19 laserscanned tracks and more are planified.
    The game is only 13.9Gb, and the loading times for a track are inferior to 5 seconds.
    The sound is amazing, we are so far away from the rf2 AI bird/duck sound in a corner.
    There will be soon DLSS, the UE is the top of the tech today.
    The night and rain are amazing.
    The weather settings are amazing.
    The multi is amazing, you can find race everytime.
    The FFB is for me enough good (maybe they will improve the lateral force feeling, the weakness) I like it, and the bumps on the roads are amazing.
    That's why rF2 is going down, when ACC is a success.
    There is so much to do in rF2, I'm very worried about rF2, cause I know AC2 will come before any AI fix in rF2.

    little question : is a new game with a new engine or a new project is discussed ? the rF2 tech and engine seem so outdated compared to the UE for example. That's why it takes one year to add something that can take 1 week with the new 3D tech like the UE. It can take less time to make a new project (3 years, ACC for example) than to fix AI, improve sound and add features in rF2 (10 years). I'm worried that rF2 is missing the new UE train, the highest standard tech for the future.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
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  14. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    Well, the elephant in the room has been revealed; S397 lost programmers. That's the cause of lack of development over the last substantial while.

    I had high hope for rF2s reinvention in the early S397 years. We got DX11 and VR, and better graphics performance and much enhanced visuals. In itself, not enough to vaunt it to the top, but necessary and essential to give them a chance. That got coupled with vastly superior content, initially in cars. At the end of 2017, they got the GT3 cars and in 2018 and 2019 added prototypes and more GT cars. If S397 hadn't added these cars, I'd say it would not have survived. So this is the second leg. The third was also content, but this time, tracks: laser scanned Sebring in mid 2018, then a slew of other tracks of similar excellent level in 2019 with LeMans and Nurbs. Things were looking very bright... all that was needed was to fix the UI and get the Competition System going ...

    And then, I don't know quite what happened. Whilst Virtual LeMans event was a big deal in mid 2020, somehow the pandemic seems to have gotten things off track. The latest VLM series race failing after 4 hours, means the multiplayer has NOT been fixed, and those esports events MSG seem so enamoured with, are looking like a major liability now not a positive. There's little doubt resources have been funneled recently to those esports events, but, it has worked out poorly. Further, there has been a very noted slowdown in developments of content, both cars and tracks. Yes, an argument can be made that they now already have most of the target content of GTs and prototypes, so there's little left to build; and it seems some car licenses (Lambo) have proven too expensive for S397 in its pre-MSG form to afford. We did get the Ferrari GTE just before VLM, and added two GT3s in Sept 2020; but its all gone quiet since then. Relationships with BMW and Porsche seem to have stalled out (and maybe the DTM Class 1 would have been a bigger deal had DTM not folded and gone to GT3 cars). But the progress on tracks has been pitiful; just enough to support the esports series, but no more. And I don't see an expansion plan here, really.

    Which leaves us with; single player/AI and known bugs degrading that experience; and continued problems and lack of development in the UI and CS. And I'm not seeing much signs of these getting significant improvements (core sim coding or UI/CS coding) in the short to medium term, even if there is some new investment in human capital. I still don't see a plan by MSG to even shore up rF2, let alone develop it significantly in the future. It's not the platform they are building the company on. That's the platform from Ignition that will also be used for BTCC, IndyCar and ACO/LeMans games. Until S397 can get some more content to delay the dropoff, they will continue to lose users while they use that time to fix the single player/AI problems and get multi player and CS properly established. Unfortunately, I just see MSG having to fight the alligators close at hand with the debacle that is Ignition, and not having BTCC fail the same way, for them to want to really invest further in fixing rF2 and adding content as well. The only hope is that MSG have made big esports commitments to FIA/ACO and they can't keep having the problems that befell them last week. But that only addresses some aspects of multiplayer, and not all of the CS system nor single player problems.

    Whatever happened to the interview with Stephen Hood?
     
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  15. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Too much (and/or incomplete) development for DX11/VR has made content maintenance a neverending process trying to keep up with incremental graphic changes and S397 never reached the competency of Reiza regarding content maintenance, so as the library of content grows, it seemingly never gets updated/fixed like we can trust with Reiza. We're now 5 years into DX11 and there are still updates required to meet the latest implementation and we know the current implementation will undergo at least one more cycle for night lighting.

    Car options using GEN strings morphed into a new method back in the ISI days. S397's use of the feature was initially haphazard, but seems to have settled in to a routine that makes sense.

    ISI implemented multiple AIW lines for specific cars, but ISI never put forth a vision for maintenance, so those AIW lines are willy-nilly and not broadly supported. S397 never picked up that ball and quit using car-specific AIWs to streamline their track-making. I feel fortunate that they did not remove the feature. Throughout S397's years of stewardship, the safety car problems have never been given a sorely required fix that affects both online and offline play.

    Embracing GT3/GTE & the Road to Indy were bright points. Lack of official tracks for Road to Indy weakened its popularity. Abandonment of official pre-70s content, particularly tire development, has been a sore point.

    Competition system is more or less here, yet no season tools are available. Not even a hint.
    ***
    So my two questions for car development are:
    1. Will S397/MSG begin methodically maintaining content? Methodically means having a plan and acknowledging production issues will interrupt the schedule, so brute forcing updates "to catch up" is not the correct answer.
    2. When are the safety car bugs going to be addressed?
     
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  16. Balazs Magyar

    Balazs Magyar Registered

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    Dear Devs,

    do you plan to make a "dumbed down" physics mode of rF2 to attract less advanced and less patient users to the game, with all the driving aides on, without the need of setting up the game in menus or with keyboard shortcuts, or with even changing the parameters of the physics engine?
    Do you plan easy to reach cases, like in ie. GP2 the Quickrace with a push of a button, or like in F12012, hotlap without an outlap. Easy to choose base setups, preset races with base content (vintage race scenarios, tintop or open-wheeler races), or any preset scenarios, I've seen it other titles, like different kind of challenges, like winning a race from a difficult situation in a middle of a race, winning from the back of the grid, winning with a damaged car?
    Do you plan tutorials or a driving school feature?

    Without these, I think, rF2 is a tool without a real purpose. Like buying a paintbrush and paints without any knowledge, and hoping to paint masterpieces of art. It's getting frustrating very quickly. You can say, you need to learn painting first somewhere else, but if I go somewhere else, I might not return...
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    In b4 the howls....

    Simplifying and explaining the basics, absolutely. But let's actually make it a usable sim before we try to also make it an arcade game (I'm being facetious).

    Very often the existing driver aids cause confusion. They need to clearly be an option, and not a default setting in a confusing and bewildering UI/JSONs. And some need to be only accessed as part of some specialised beginner/arcade subgame so they don't interfere with anyone armed with a steering wheel who understands the basics of a racing line (driving school? Yeah, would be good).
     
  18. Balazs Magyar

    Balazs Magyar Registered

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    I meant that it needed to be a consumer product AND a simulator. The Studio clearly needs money to move forward. They try balancing between developing and creating content, but it seems to be getting harder and harder without reaching more 'average' gamers. They running out of time...
     
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  19. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    I'm going to make some broad assumptions here and I have no idea if they are factual but they are just my thoughts!

    Cars like GT3/GTE, Formula pro, historic cars etc... though these cars are all great and they are vital to the sim, I put them in the category of "fantasy" for the user, meaning (for most of us) the chances of actually racing these cars IRL is pretty low. Nothing wrong with that at all, jump on the sim, live your fantasy in a historic F1 or have a virtual "career" in a GT3, good for you, fantastic!

    However, there's a second lot of people, maybe a small minority I don't know, who see the sim as a training tool, or to keep their skills sharp, or as a kind of stepping stone to real racing. Though it is still fun and used for fun, the simulation is part of their actual real racing career (or attempt at racing career). For these people, the Formula pro though fun and good for a bit of a distraction, has almost no relevance.

    While S397 has said they are not really focusing on street cars, the vast majority of aspiring racing drivers will be taking to the track in a stripped out modified street car with a roll cage, like an Mx-5, Honda S2000, an old Porsche 944 etc etc etc. Something like this is attainable and relevant to the "everyman". There's already some entry level racing cars in the sim like the FVee and others which is great, but I think that more people take to the track in a modified street car rather than a Fvee. And karts are great but in my view they are seen as more for kids to get into the sport young.

    I think iracing does a better job at capturing this market of people who see sim racing as a stepping stone to real racing, and something like Forza does a better job of catering to people who just want to live a fantasy and don't really intend to mesh it into their real life attempt at entering motorsport.

    Anyway, if there is anything I have learnt, it's that my personal preferences certainly are not the mainstream view and if I made a video game it'd probably sell ten copies. S397 want the community to make cars like this, and there are some great ones out there that I love driving. I still think it'd be great to have more official entry level "modified production" cars in the sim, you know, the kind of cars that 99% of people who do motorsport on the weekend actual drive. I have laboured this point multiple times now, so I shall go back into my box now until next time. Cheers.
     
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  20. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    Yes, but I think it's more complicated than simply making arcade mode physics. Is there any good reason why an "arcade" gamer would pick up rF2 over other products? I don't frankly see many. rF2 was always about having the best physics and then catching up to other sims in the remaining "categories". Those other categories have to be equal or better than other racing games for players to choose rF2 over them.

    In order to get popular among arcade gamers, you need to deliver on every front. Graphics, ease of use, loading times, sounds, controller support, actually supporting career or at least championship series modes, etc. There is a long way to go to reach that goal. I think rF2's best bet is currently being the go to sim for esports endurance races etc. and try to build on the online competition system for it to become a serious alternative to iRacing. Competing against arcade titles makes no sense to me.
     
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