The REIZA DLC.....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dady Cairo, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    If you include a large section of the community then it makes sense. Not all are experienced sim racers and might think a car is "bad" because its too hard to drive.
     
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  2. StrawmanAndy

    StrawmanAndy Registered

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    Your argument is fixated on if a car is hard to drive and how we should just accept that. What you are completely missing or misunderstanding is people don't mind hard cars to drive. That is not their point or argument. The McLaren MP4-13 is a wild animal. The Skip Barber is wild. BUT, the ffb and physics feel given is a greater feel of information to the user. The issue at hand is the cars are difficult because of the lack of information. When you turn into a corner with the Moro it gives you no sensation of the wheel/forces. It's a solid weight and gives you no indication that you're turning or what the wheels/chassis is doing. Whereas every other s397 gives information, it will go light or heavier, it will try and move to central position - whatever it does, that is information we are used to within rF2. The Reiza cars do not give the same information, thus making it harder to drive, thus the issues users have with the content.

    Hard cars to drive are fun. We can accept not every car will be perfectly balanced, or perfect with aero and grip. But when the issue is because of a lack of response to the user then it's not fun or right. I've said it before, I am sure they're using realfeeler in the hdv which is a dated and useless tool in rF2. ASR used to run it all the time and it ruined any driving sensation because it would just make the wheel knock for no reason. The ffb is also clipping on certain cars, so I think they might not be using the new steering force. I'm also sure the pm file they've tried to convert hasn't been successful as it doesn't give the flex or stiffness of a car you expect. The Puma and Vee are the only two I can feel and drive with understanding. The rest feel like a step back to rF1.

    You can enjoy a bad car, but there is bad because the real car was bad, and then there is bad because the developers have messed up the physics.
     
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  3. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    No it was not about car being difficult/easy. It is about likes/dislikes. Eventually drivers would rather dislike car with "unpleasant features", rather than car that is perfect. So it makes more sense to have an example when people dislike difficulty.

    I would not say that you are right or wrong about these things you have mentioned. There is a possibility for both cases. Should look at it more deeply, get more acquainted with the car, how it is made, how it works, whats up with your setup and so on...
     
  4. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    I think you guys are arguing from 2 different perspectives. Manta im sure is not saying cars that are hard and disliked are "the good cars" even if they are unreslistic and poorly ilplemented, but that sometimes a car that some think is "bad" actually is properly made but these people dont like it cause its harder to drive. Thats how i read his posts because i dont think manta is saying "cars that are hard to drive even when poorly made is great because no one else likes it".
     
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  5. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    To be honest, I trust all "S397" cars (made by S397) and the new SlowMotion creations (as well as Palatov D4, GP3, Metalmoro MR1).

    My exclusive goal being the most realism.

    Anyway, considering the number of these cars, who can really drive a lot more ?

    I use in addition the ISI cars that I consider most credible, as well as Kartsim.

    That's all, waiting for the future S397s.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  6. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Well if you trust Slowmotion's MR1 (and you are right to do it) then you trust Reiza as well. They got not only licenses but it's way easier for them to go to the car shop and work closer to the guys.
    Same thing for the Vee, they are in Interlagos. Renato said the car behavior in rF2 is more realistic due to the tire model. The Vee in Brazil is not exactly the same as the ones in other countries.
     
  7. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    Ok.

    I have a hard time getting feedback on the reiza pack.

    For now I love the Puma Pe52.
    And the Vee is interesting to drive.
     
  8. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

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    Haha, that's true....but we were talking about the Reiza cars.

    I think StrawmanAndy already explained it better than I could've, so I'll leave it there
     
  9. Bernardo

    Bernardo Registered

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    I have criticized the cars of the Reiza pack, but not because I find them difficult to drive, but because they do not transmit the information of the force feedback correctly and completely. And the physical ones are not implemented correctly. Compare the physical and the force feedback of the Radical SR3 with those of the MCR (very similar cars in power, weight and structure) and you will realize what I am talking about. The difficulty of handling the cars of Reiza is not derived from its mechanical characteristics, but from the poor implementation of its force feedback and the way in which the physics are transmitted to the steering wheel. And it's not a problem of steering wheel configuration. If so, the problem would arise with other cars and it is not like that. This problem only appears with the Reiza pack.
     
  10. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    The MCR gives me all the information that i need. For me its just perfectly with my CSW V2. Yes it is different compared to other vehicles, but this is only logical as each vehicle uses different suspension geometries to calculate the force feedback. In the end, the developers have no influence at all on the force feedback, unless they would not create the suspension geometries like the real ones
     
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  11. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I agree that MCR steering forces variation is quite dull, but same as Andregee I don't feel shortage of information to drive it.

    I also wouldn't separate FFB from physics. Of course there are some purely FFB values, like nominalFFBtorque to scale down the forces, because not everyone owns 30Nm DD wheel. The rest seems like it is all physics...

    I would point at MCR wheels. They look very small radius and wide, so may not have a lot of aligning torque because of possibly short pneumatic trail ? Also it is very light, very low, looks like has plenty of downforce, might roll very very little.

    I wonder why it feels how it feels. It is interesting car, it seems quite a lot different from Radical SR3.
     
  12. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    And at the same time, "hard to drive" isn't equal to "realistic".

    As long as it handles like I'd expect, that's good enough. A V8 Supercar won't go flat through Blanchimont. If it did, that's not 'realistic'.
     
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  13. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I welcome unexpected. Though with some knowledge certain things gets easier to believe and expect at the same time. While at the same time some things that was previously most believable begins to be questionable.
     
  14. Bernardo

    Bernardo Registered

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    Reading the Reiza forum I find something that seems to be good news. There are several people who have expressed some criticism of the pack, especially regarding the FFB. The good news is that the developers have said that some of the criticisms are valid and that they are working on it. Knowing the work done in Automobilista, I dare to say that they will improve the pack satisfactorily. Regarding the FFB, they have said that it seems that the problem originates in the implementation of the steering degrees of the steering wheel and in the tire model so different in both sims. They have also talked about the correction of some graphic errors.
     
  15. DustySticks

    DustySticks Registered

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    I think the Honda AJR needs some love on the performance side to have it fall in line better with the other AJRs. It is the most fuel efficient, but it's pace is noticably slower as it is about 10-15 kph slower on longer straights.

    Aside from that and some small graphical things I've been very happy with the pack
     
  16. Cangrejo

    Cangrejo Registered

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    Very good news. I must also say that the circuits of this pack are very good and fun.
     
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  17. Bernardo

    Bernardo Registered

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    I agree. Especially Imola 72 and Ibarra. I would gladly pay if Reiza brought other Brazilian tracks from Automobilista. Although they are not as popular, they are very fun and add variety to the simracing. And my dream would be to bring to rfactor2 the Brazilian "Copa de Marcas".
     
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  18. tpw

    tpw Registered

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    I’ve got a feeling (hope to be proven wrong) that we won’t be seeing more official AMS content ported to rF2. If you can already get all the content in AMS, and a large proportion of it in rF2, then why pay for it again in AMS? Personally I’ll be all over AMS2 like a cheap suit, but I’ve already seen plenty of comments from people being outraged at having to pay for content ever again in any existing or future titles because they bought into AMS.

    That said, I’d love to see the all of the AMS Brit pack tracks in rF2 and a few more of the lower powered offerings such as the Caterham, Marcas, Lancer and Aussie legends.
     
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  19. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Well simracing is not like a moba/mmorpg that you create something "exclusive". Most tracks and cars will be available everywhere so rF2 has a plus of allowing you to make money in your own game and in rF2. If something is going to appear here and u got the license why not be the one that will take that $$$?
    In Reiza case they got some exclusive stuff to cover like south american tracks and championships. Sure it's not something that will attract too many people but it's an extra.
     
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  20. Narrowbackwing

    Narrowbackwing Registered

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    But they don’t have to buy it again do they ? If they have it in AMS , but to have the opportunity to have their favorite car / track in rf2 give us all the choice to purchase or not , nobody’s twisting their arm to buy .
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
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