The Detail of Crashes/Incidents?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by nickbalti, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. nickbalti

    nickbalti Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    8
    I did try search but could only find rf2.exe has crashed :D

    What I want to know is just how detailed do we expect to see damage/crashes?

    Is what we are seeing the beta the best we can expect or is the damage/crash models something that is being worked on and not yet incorporated? I don't want to compare to games because I want rFactor 2 to be completely unique and amazing :D

    I know that my front/rear wings and wheel can come off but I don't find it very detailed. Can cars crush? Will body parts rub on tyres? Do tyres puncture? Do wheel suspensions break but the wheel is still intact which means annoyingly you'll need to retire? So many more questions lol.

    As I said if it's already been asked/answered then I apologise but would love the links to the posts :)
     
  2. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,725
    Likes Received:
    126
    There have been changes not yet enabled, there are more changes planned afterwards. But, crashing isn't our priority, either: Racing is.

    Some manufacturers (and other individuals) also specify how much damage a racing title can have. I've also licensed (for free, just because I got a car he drove) an F1 driver (name) who died from a crash. Obviously his daughter wanted to know exactly what damage we have... It was utterly important that we have a reasonable crash effect (for us), but that the driver is not affected by it (for her).

    You can expect to see bodywork damage, paint scraping (I even heard paint transfer mentioned), bodywork loss, etc. Beyond that I don't know, I haven't heard much further discussion.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Nelson

    Nelson Registered

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    1
  4. mikeyk1985

    mikeyk1985 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    3
    "crashing isn't our priority, either: Racing is."

    I completely get what your saying here, it's an argument that crops up time and time again, however, crashing IS racing, it happens like you said, and while pretty much all of us who use rFactor 2 don't drive the wrong way, launch into walls on purpose etc, it would be nice to have things like first corner incidents replicated realistically. I also realise that truly realistic damage isn't really achievable with the hardware of today and so, you could argue, what's the point? Crashing and racing do go hand in hand however, you cannot argue that.
     
  5. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,915
    Likes Received:
    83
    morbid discussion imho, I dont get much enjoyment from smashed cars. Ive seen enough, thank you.
    I dont beleive in total simulation either. I prefer my life.

    regards, nikos
     
  6. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,725
    Likes Received:
    126
    Isn't this post you saying we need what I already said we need, and would have, in the same post you replied to?
     
  7. coops

    coops Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    9
    hi Tim just wondering if implementing if you lose a mirror you lose that view ? just a bit more realism that's all IMO
     
  8. RRA-MArk

    RRA-MArk Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    A question I have on damage is more about how it affects the car performance rather than how it "looks". Maybe it's just the mod I race in rF1, but it seems that cars that smack the wall pretty hard come in to the pits and they are almost 100% as fast as they were before hitting the wall (or other car).
    They get punished with long repair times, but it seems there is very little performance degradation. I'm hoping that in rF2 that wall bangers cars lose some speed/handling for the remainder of the race instead of being totally restored after pitting.
     
  9. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,725
    Likes Received:
    126
    I've discussed all this in another thread less than a week ago :)
     
  10. Mitt Wilson

    Mitt Wilson Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    1
    Push play and the record goes round and round! :)
     
  11. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    126

    This is an interesting aspect of damage that I hadn't considered, more due to not being privy to the dealing and negotiation one need to go through to license content than anything. But it does help into understanding your stance on damage in-game.

    I'm very interested in finding out who this driver is! I know Gilles has a daughter Melanie, my wife knows her as they are both from the same area of Montréal. Ayrton didn't have a daughter, nor did Elio (that we know of!) but Ronnie did. Hrmmm, I'm assuming it's a recent driver. You did mention 'another 80s' car so I'm a bit stumped!
     
  12. nickbalti

    nickbalti Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    8
    Just so people know that I wasnt asking for sickening recreations of crashes. I have the upmost respect for family/friends who have lost someone or had someone injured an a motorsport incident. And I completely respect and appreciate Tims first post.

    However I am asking for slightly more realitic bodywork damage such as a wheel rubbing on the body work etc.


    Nikos, you to me now are a regular on this forum and I don't want to start a debate with you because I respect most of your comments, but I do believe your comment is a bit over the top.

    As I've said above, I do respect the families of incidents, and can appreciate that a handful (including myself) have already been involved in a driving accident. Damage is part of motor racing. With what you are saying you'd be quite happy with no damage at all, no car pulling to the right, no flat tyres etc. Well the reason I play rFactor instead of Gran Turismo is because I want to learn to stay on the track, and be penalised with slight damage if I come off.

    I apologise if you think I wanted to re-create horrible accidents, but I can assure you that this is not the case. It actually brings a tear to my idea to think of the brave drivers who have lost their lives doing what we love to watch and play.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,915
    Likes Received:
    83
    Certainly I didnt want to offend you (or anyone) with my post, apologies if I did.
    Two points I would like to make though.

    First is about simulations in general and as this is a forum about one, I think its the most appropriate place, as opposed in discussions about the dangers of internet from people who dont even use it and have no idea what they are talking about (my wife included lol).
    Thing is, in simulations, you can, or be encouraged, to do things you are not able otherwise or you cannot afford to or its just too dangerous to do in everyday life.
    The last part, the dangerous stuff is what worries me most, regarding young people who THINK they are familiar with certain actions through simulators and try them in real life with...uncertain results.
    So,I believe that simulation should go up to a point which I define as the point beyond which sim tries to imitate realistically the RESULTS of unnapropriate actions.The real danger imho is the user of the sim to eventually GET USED to these results and accept them as real life which they are NOT.
    I understand that the above may seem irrelevant for a lot of people, but it is something that puzzles me a lot as I believe there are a lot of events that enforce my point.
    On the practical side of the discussion, having my wheels in my F3 torn off is enough for me.

    Secondly I dont agree with the evaluation that crashing and racing do go hand in hand. As far as I know, if a racing driver starts destroying his cars, soon he will be without job, who will trust him with his mega-buck car.
    Also, its very unfair to the efforts a lot of the drivers themselves did, for a safe environment they enjoy today.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    126
    I personally don't see how damage or crashing is offensive when it comes to motor-racing.

    Combat aircraft simulations is a whole genre in itself which is based on damaging and killing your enemy. Millions of people have died in war, my grandfather being one who died as a pilot in WWII. I'm not offended by sims like IL-2 which has a very good damage model so when you machine gun your enemy the damage inflicted on the plane is quite realistic. Not to mention the myriad of shoot 'em up games (do they still call them shoot 'em ups anymore?!).

    Motor-racing sims are based purely on racing with the objective to be faster than your rivals. It does not concentrate on crashing, regardless of whether there is a damage model or not. Having a good damage model though is a necessity to replicate reality. Otherwise why even bother having gravel traps, tyre bundles or walls at all? Having a good damage model will actually teach you to become a better driver by avoiding making contact. If you want the option of invulnerability turned on then you can choose to do that and play dodgem cars but I can guarantee you will get less out of driving and battling with your competitors as a consequence.

    As bad as games like Carmageddon are, I don't see how any are worse than first person shooters which are the most popular games in the world.

    If someone is 'persuaded or influenced' by a computer game to do 'bad things', you can't blame the game. There's something fundamentally wrong with the person in the first place.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,915
    Likes Received:
    83
    It certainly is a big discussion/subject imho.
    I just stated the side that bothers me.
     
  16. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,915
    Likes Received:
    83
    double post,sorry
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2012
  17. nickbalti

    nickbalti Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    8
    Nikos I once again respect your post, but I just think that we are discussing something that doesn't need to be discussed. You have given your opinion and I appreciate that but it is throwing my thread in the wrong direction.

    Tim has kindly pointed out which way ISI want to head with it and I am happy with that. I certainly do not want to start a debate about gaming vs real life. People in the Army play Call of Duty, should they stop because people they know and love have been injured or killed in war?

    I agree with what Playlife is saying about it. However I will just remind people who want to join this thread that Nikos has just stated his personal feeling about it which I appreciate :)

    If anyone from ISI want to elaborate on the damage model in the future I would be happy to hear but as I stated - I don't want this thread to fall under the debating category over real life vs gaming :)
     
  18. mikeyk1985

    mikeyk1985 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    3
    Not really, morbid implies death is involved and comparatively speaking, most people survive a crash. I'm talking about wings breaking, wheels deforming etc. not people getting killed.

    I realise you're putting your views across but I don't really want to be thought of as someone who has any kind of interest in people getting killed...I don't.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. Vince Klortho

    Vince Klortho Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    1
    Something to consider : there are mainly three different materials used to make race car bodies - sheet metal, carbon fiber, and fiberglass. Sheet metal will deform in a crash (before it comes off) but the other two do not - they shatter or break off. These are two very different behaviors to model. For the most part only street cars and stock cars use sheet metal and nearly every other type of race car has fiberglass or CF bodies. This has big implications for car modellers. It means they have to model the internal parts of cars if they want to support damage handling and this can increase poly counts immensely. Vertex deformation has been in ISI's repertoire for a while now so with a well-tuned damage.ini file it can be simulated fairly well.
     
  20. Rich Goodwin

    Rich Goodwin Registered

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,217
    Likes Received:
    8
    Just an adequate amount of damage does the job imo. In an open wheel, if you nerf a wall, the wheel goes out of line etc. I don't really care for damage models like the ones seen in Dirt or need for speed, in a simulation. It works in those games but I expect more effort in the driving experience here rather than the "bells & whistles"
     

Share This Page