Thank You 397 but could you fix whats broken first?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MotherDawg, May 4, 2021.

  1. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

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  2. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    Just to throw in how I am using the diff for gtc split 1. The higher you go, the later it slides, but the moment you slide it's far more aggressive and harder to catch than with a lower diff. The higher ones you can use for higher speed turns with smooth surfaces, but at Sebring for example I have to use lower diff settings to avoid death somewhere.
     
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  3. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

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    That's logical, saw your race in the Bentley at Sebring, that looks rough as hell, high diff settings would make that VERY skittish.
     
  4. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Well, I talked in the comments with Henry Sinik (an RF2 alien) and he reported that GT3 were not sliding so much anymore. Now I can only expect a BOP on the GTE's and whatever car is exhibiting this behaviors.

    It might not fix the supposed issue with cambers and low tire pressures, but they did something to improve the issues, and better that than nothing.

    I even asked if he would like for them to change this and he agreed on that. I asked because changing the behavior might also mean that they can't be fast like they are now and might lose their podium (maybe not) but it might be a reason to not want changes. I am happy he wants it fixed too and hope it's general on the Esports side.

    I was analysing and hotlapping is a different beast. While they do get more sideways action than one would think possible in races, I saw the times drop like 4 seconds during race on the laps, compared to a really fast lap (tire wear is still a thing in Rfactor2, even if it should be more punishing under lower tire pressure conditions).
     
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  5. Daniele Vidimari

    Daniele Vidimari Registered

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    I would not be surprised if rF2 is loosing more players due to unfixed bugs and physics flaws, than the new ones it brings with the "graphics improvements".
    The competition system seems to be already dead, the only things that brings some players are the few official series with prize pools and the ones that allows people to qualify for them (GT Challenge).

    The situation with the Endurance Pack's cars is absurd, with tires melting after a copule of laps, horrible drivabiltiy, aerodynamics full of flaws and exploits and of course, a unbalanced BoP.
    I bet this summer there will be the 4th (or 5th?) untested update that will twist the cars once again. Well, at that point, after the end of the season of some endurance series, many players will not touch these cars again.
     
  6. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    There is lots of demotivational bits and pieces, as well as there are lots of positives that motivates to turn on rF2. But the downfall of player numbers seems to align with new UI. Will see what the future brings. Perhaps rF2 is about to supercompensate all that loss, or maybe it isn't. I guess it is not even up to S397 that much anymore. We'll see. Managers are weird people.
     
  7. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Tires melting after a few laps? Maybe if people are abusing them for lap times like we see aliens do, at least we can be assured that they get penalised for doing that. If that is what you mean I am happy for it. I never drive longer sessions, but I can make 5 laps with soft tires wihtout them melting... Pretty sure if I was using mediums I could make like 20 laps no problem.
    In what conditions are tires melting too fast? Is it the way the aliens drive the cars, sliding them around for speed? If so, then of course they should be melting. At least that!

    Could you elaborate more on the aerodynamics side? I am genuinely asking to know more about that if you have good knowledge on what might be wrong.

    I don't negate the physics issues, but I want to know because it's hard to pinpoint what might affecting what and seeing bold claims I do want to know in more detail why they think so.
     
  8. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I was looking at the numbers and they are dropping, but are they really dropping that much? They had risen before that, but they also had not risen that much. Pretty sure Ermin had an effect on those numbers rising and falling too, as they went down after the video of the broken physics and he was actually one of the very few mentioning RF2 lately on youtube.

    I actually like the new UI, but pretty sure I might not be using some of the features that people are confused about when comparing to the old one. I like the fresh look of it and for my use I don't find any difficulty compared to the old one.
     
  9. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    @Nieubermesch Of course what Ermin has been talking may have had some effect, but I think he was just responding to what is happening and resonated with what people were thinking already. Probably sped up some opinions development. Basically a catalyst to what would be anyway...

    COVID situation brought a lot of more people to simracing, perhaps a bit less to rF2 than to other simulations. And unfortunately it seems to have had reversed all the way back for rF2 already. At this very point of timeline rF2 to me feels really fragile and it is sad. People like me, or like Ermin has association with rF2 problems only because we don't ignore them. There might be community issues as well when real guys with good observations are ignored, mocked and disrespected - for example majorly in Discord ecochamber, which is promoted by S397, unlike these forums where thinking can actually happen. Tells a lot about how S397 has set to utilize rF2. Gotta make money. And money they made. In my opinion S397 is notorious for poor timing in so many cases. The only truly well timed maneuver seems to be deal with Motorsports Games, or is it ? Will they even try to make rF2 great, or will they just hold it on life support, while using what was mostly built by Image Space Incorporated.

    And the UI... not that hard to me either. But there are masses of people not launching rF2 anymore just because it was a last drop, a last step backwards, which was planned and developed for years, with expectations growing. It just was a significant add-up to loads of other little issues that never even gets dealt, like vehicle physics. What the hell is up with not nailing the tires, even Michelin officially pointed it out, it is anecdotal by now, they must be building their own reality instead of simulating original one. I was waiting very much for Alpine mod which is supported by S397, and then they make some insane aerodynamics for it. Things like that just keeps on adding up to a trainwreck and thats it, you are done at some point. No need for me, Ermin or anybody to tell it, most people are smart enough themselves.
     
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  10. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I can't be sure of the effect Ermin had in the fluctuation RF2 had in the number of players from steam charts, but I think seeing a youtuber that I think got a lot of traction from comparing Rf2 and ACC giving rhe veredict to RF2 initially and then changing his mind really had to have an effect to even the people who went full deep into RF2. I know it bothered me to know about the way RF2 was driven competitively in a lot of series. There were probably old active supporters of RF2 who saw the video and became disillusioned and went to play other sims. People who were newer to it that came into RF2 because of Ermin that then followed his new position on it...

    Surely RF2 also benefited from covid and some bigger coverage generally from official virtual races, but that also brought into question a lot of what was happening competitively, but I would guess that majority of RF2 base didn't even care to watch that and since Ermin was such a big place to watch RF2 content and all I really think it was the principal reason for RF2 being hurting now.

    Then came MGS acquiring S397 and I hope too that this bring good things, but I would like to see it happening faster. We know that the team is torn between other projects too, so a lot of what we want to see will not happen as soon... Since they were giving their expertise to develop the physics of the new Nascar and all I am pretty sure they are not giving attention to physics and even newer cars aren't really being released aa they were before because of that. Mostly new tracks, graphics updates and that also points to that focus of physics resources at other places. Hopefully at least this second half of the year comes the physics advancements. I would really like to see them fix the most pressing issues, but then they also should start finishing other aspects, like track temperatures and all of that.

    They should also offer a good price for all content they have now and that would boost sales of not only RF2 but all of their content. They are selling it expensive but is that really the best way to make money if they could be making more if people bought in more quantities? Just brainstorming here to what they could do to bring more attention again to it.

    It's a question of waiting now. Hopefully they take the right steps, and I am sure youtubers can have a big effect, because they will try Rfactor2 more, they will sing praises for the fixes and people will get more exposure that Rf2 is now on a path to real development and numbers should go up a lot.

    Make it happen S397 and MGS.
     
  11. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    It doesn't help that reviews went from very good to just neutral in just 6 months or so and a lot has to do with the UI. It has to do with prices! It has to do with lack of base content! It has to do with load times... Let's hope MGS have good professionals to fix the pricing, better loading times, some fixes to the UI, by actually listening to the community for gods sake. So many good points have been raised that even I think couls fix by having some time with the menus myself.
     
  12. Daniele Vidimari

    Daniele Vidimari Registered

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    For now i will not elaborate more on the aerodynamics side of the GTE, talking about performance, but a issue is the huge slipstream for example.
    In tracks like Spa, you can carry so much speed to pass the GTE ahead even before the braking zone of Les Combes like a F1 with the drs.
    Again on slipstream, the rear lose more downforce than the front leading to huge control loss, something that plagued the GT3 as well making racing at Spa a pain for example.
    The effect on dirty air is too pronunced according to real drivers feedbacks and also by just watching a random WEC race (or GT3 race).

    You can also throw the car in huge yaw angles without losing downforce, making possible stuff like this (and gaining time):


    About the tires, is not related to overdriving of course, otherwise "pros" wouldn't be pros.
    Is about the huge thermal degradation you suddenly have after few laps, yes you can lap 3 seconds slower and you will have it later, but this only makes you 3 seconds slower per lap.

    Michelin itself pointed out the issue last year after the virtual Le Mans, stating that these tires are the exactly opposite of the real ones where you can do multiple stints and stay pretty consistent, even doing the best laps at the end of a stint. Here, you do a couple of mega laps at the start and then you just lose performance lap by lap.
    At tracks like Le Mans, the rear tires gets huge heat on the straights and that heat barely dissipate.

    After that statement from Michelin, nothing else has been said on this matter, we are almost one year later.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  13. Daniele Vidimari

    Daniele Vidimari Registered

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    Delete please, wrong edit.
     
  14. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I thought the dirty air effect was already fixed, but maybe I misread or it was on other class, like GT3, but I heard about that for sure, just thought you were referring more to specific handling charactheristics under no slipstream effect, like the exploits of detaching rear anti roll bar and as such.

    Well, I have to take your word for it, as I heard about the Michelin issue with tires but you raised points I never saw and if it's under normal behavior then we have an issue outside the slidy slide driving and one year is quite a lot...
     
  15. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Oh, you added one video about the yaw problem too. Yeah, thats more what I was expecting, because people have been talking and we werent sure if it was tires or other aspect that allowed that behavior I find quite disappointing for sure. I myself tried to match a lap with a RSR GTE and was doinf 2:20 on spa and doing that with the setup I went to 2:16...

    Wow, that was a huge throw at your video!
     
  16. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    there is no bad game, but only bad users.

    - For Dirt Rally 2, I use realistic settings (default steering wheel rotation), I don't want to use a group B cars with a 270° wheel rotation like "Jon Armstrong" has suggested to be the fastest, I want a pure rally experience, and I prefer using 900°, to be slower, but I have a fun real experience, alone at home (I've tried 270°, it's easier and faster, but the experience is meeeeh, "Jon Armstrong" has posted a world record with 270° and a group B cars, I have posted him this message "be a man, use 900°", he has answered "I can use any rotation", this is the perfect example of a bad user, who use exploit or crazy unreal setting just to be the fastest on leaderboard, pathetic, I could have more respect for him if he has posted a 900° video, not at all a world record, but a true skilled experience, like Louise Cook has done, respect for ever to her thumbs down for ever for Jon Amrstrong)

    here a bad user who use 360° for a group B car just to be the fastest.



    here my favorite pure real driver Louise Cook who uses the default 720° for a pure experience.



    - For rFactor 2, it's the same, I race alone with the AI at 100%, and my driving style doesn't use exploits. I don't seek to be the first at the leaderboard, I only want a pure real experience at my home. I prefer leaving "pros" (or exploit users") fighting together....I'm sure I will find a league with my driving style.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  17. Sim_Player

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    yea just don't use exploits 4head ...don't drive at all 4head ...then RF2 is perfect isn't it ?
    lmao bad user.
     
  18. EricW

    EricW Registered

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    Being competitive and exploiting the physics to its extremes doesn't make anyone a bad user..
    It's just not your cup of tea.
    Without ESport drivers RF2 will not survive.
     
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  19. Sim_Player

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    There is something off with aero as well, i don't know too much details. but to put it simply, car generates downforce of big magnitude when it really shouldn't reach such levels downforce in that situation. for example during pitch.
    This could probably affect in roll conditions as well but i'm not sure about it.
    This is why you see Pros running basically zero rake.
     
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  20. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    When Daniel Ricardo joined Renault, he posted a video using a sim Renault to break a track record. Trouble was he was using the kite view, majikally floating above the car. All sorts of praise was tweeting his way. I did the same as you, called him out, be a man...git yer butt in the cockpit.!! strangely, I never got a response....
     

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