Thank You 397 but could you fix whats broken first?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MotherDawg, May 4, 2021.

  1. MotherDawg

    MotherDawg Registered

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    Thank you all for posting... please continue!

    I've heard, could be mistaken, MSG or S397 have a multiple year contract for Le Mans and that Michelin is involved?
    For their sake, I hope Michelin is going to invent a tire that you can race at next to no pressure... or it will never be a good vehicle for their name.

    P. -S. It's fun to have popular thread!
     
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  2. Pawel44

    Pawel44 Registered

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    Do you really believe it will become attractive when comes to graphic? There are many arcade games with much better graphics and rF2 is trying to catch up to average level. I doubt it will succeed in this case, so I wouldn't bet on graphics, but on its much stronger points like physics. Few problems need to be fixed here if rF2 wants to remain relevant and save its current user base.

    You didn't say this directly.
     
  3. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    Yea i'm pretty sure majority of sim player buy simulator because they hear how good physics, ffb is period.
    2nd best thing most probably is how good the car sounds

    if these 2 things are good then even AMS1 level of graphics can be digested. anyone who buys sims for their visual quality.....then they are here for wrong reasons.

    YES, graphics are necessary BUT not as necessary as physics , ffb and sounds.
    Hell i would even say a good A.I will triumph graphics any day of the week.
    And these 3 things is hindering the growth of RF2 right now, not because of graphics.
     
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  4. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    A sim tries to simulate the reality.
    The closer is, the better is.
    Apart from this, are the user prferences.
    I think that most think in a simulator as physics simulator and graphics and sounds are secondary.
    Some want better graphics, other prefer better sounds, but this is a matter of likes.
    In my case the quality of the sounds isn't very important. When you're racing in a circuit, with the helmet, the sounds aren't very good.
     
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  5. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    We got to wait a little more. They already said they are reviewing and learning the code so they can really make progress on the physics and other areas. They really take their sweet time and sometimes they don't even fix simple things, for whatever reason, but if we look at how things have been dealt lately (they want more community input and they have different branches on steam...) then I think we should remain optimistic.

    I understand those who play online that they want to drive realistically and they see so many people going insane with the driving. For those I think you have to go offline until they fix some of the problems and don't try to brake an awesome driving model by doing weird things.
     
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  6. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    Or simply enjoy with a realistic driving and let others to enjoy using exploits. 99.99% of us isn't going to live off this:)
     
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  7. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    Fastest time in the FE hotlap contest was done by driving “properly”. You don’t HAVE to use the exploits, you can still use your realistic setups and drive how you should drive.
     
  8. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I only use rF2 in online, and this is what i do.
    Everyone have our limits and is good to know them, fight against rivals of your skill, forget the aliens and enjoy the driving.
     
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  9. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    While that is good , i don't think it can be applied to other dlc content especially GT.
    Recent yaw modification has dealt with it little bit but still big chunk of work needs to be done.
     
  10. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    the problem is you will end using exploits even in single player if you are trying to push the car's limit.
    Setup exploits are optional but driving exploits are unavoidable,you will use some of it unconsciously.

    It is not simply a matter of just ignoring, you have to live with it and this is why it sucks.
     
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  11. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I don't use it. For me is simple.
    It's possible that it due to the car that every one uses. I never drive GT3.
    I almost only drive Openwheelers.
     
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  12. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yes, or that. I mean for those that really see this more competitively I guess. In ACC I used to play online a lot and I tried to go for the podium. Sometimes it just wasnt possible, much faster than me, but I still got a lot of food fights with some people around my skill level. So there is that too of course ;)
     
  13. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    That's also a very good way to look at it, although I don't think that by using some higher pressures and FFB reasobaly high will be that easy to drive like a maniac and such, you will see that trying to drive on those ways that RF2 allows aren't quite that feasable after all. I agree there is something off with how much play over the limit the game allows, but I see so many people looking at the game and going to far with their accessements to what is wrong and actually compare RF2 to other sims that actually might be more punishing but they actually are just that, aren't really better at simulating driving and car dynamics and that's why I can't give up on Rfactor2. I would like to try IRacing more, but thats just too expensive.
     
  14. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    The set-up exploits, yes most likely they are not realistic, but I am not totally convinced at this stage that the driving exploits in rF2 are totally fake exploits (yes I know there is some overlap between the two). The way I see it there are two ways to drive a car fast. Edge up to the limit in small increments and take little "stabs" at the limit (the conventional way to drive fast). Or, purposely go over the limit and then work backwards finding the grip (can be used with understeer and oversteer - for example one can knowingly quickly dial in too much steering angle and get understeer, and then ease back on the steering angle to find the optimum front slip angle, or one can throw the car into a corner and then let the car find the limit as it finds it's groove). I think both can be very fast IRL, and also in rF2. As much as I find myself initially gaining massive chunks of time doing the maximum attack style (probably just from pure agression at trying to be faster), for me personally when it really comes down to it I usually am faster with the conventional style in rF2. I would like to see how Senna or Ari Vatennen would drive a GT car, maybe we would be having a different converstation!

    Regarding the physics I agree with someone's post above that there generally does seem like there is too much yaw in rF2 - too much rotation off throttle and too much rotation on throttle (and I think this is maybe exaggerated by tires that are too springy/rubberband-like, basically not ridged enough). BUT, with some tweaks such as adjusting the diff, you can get the cars in rF2 to feel pretty close to the way you want them to feel as far as yaw goes, and in general. THAT to me is why rF2 reigns supreme. The other sims don't feel right, and I can't get them dialed in. rF2 also often dosn't feel right, but I CAN get it dialed in. Of course I want rF2 to be as close to 100% realistic in all aspects but the main thing for me is that I feel like I'm driving a real car, and rF2 is the best at that despite the flaws.

    Not that anyone is asking, but for me personally: physics/tyre model > more diverse cars > sounds > A.I > dynamic elements to do with the track surface (such as dirt being kicked onto the track, puddles etc) > more tracks > graphics. I don't mind the UI!
     
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  15. Sim_Player

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    I wouldn't recommend iracing at all. stick with RF2.
     
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  16. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Ahah, is it so bad? I heard it's the absolute opposite of Rf2 over the limit.
     
  17. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Not trying to self promote my videos, but I have some lately that I'm trying to push quite hard (95/100 AI) and I don't need to drive around like a go kart! People really need to understand that FOV also influences a lot of what we perceive of too much rotation! I've made that mistake myself. Also be aware of what is activated with exagerate yaw on Rfactor2 callibration. Doesn't negate some of the physics issues, but I myself have been fooled by those factors into believing more things were not right.

    Edit: Oh, and when looking at replay videos be careful as anything bellow high quality in replays will not match 100% to what the physics are doing onboard and will feel weird as hell.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
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  18. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    I've played rF2 like I am looking through a pair of binoculars and I've played rF2 like I am looking through a fish eye lens, and eveything in between (just to experiment and see what it feels like). I have a 1:1 FOV atm, which on my setup is actually a pretty wide FOV. I also have all head physics and other effects off. I still stand by the statement that rF2 "feels" like it has too much rotation (esp. on throttle). When you apply throttle and ask a car to go faster, it wants to trace a WIDER arc, not a smaller arc. Yes this can be overcome if you throttle more with power oversteer, but in rF2, it just feels exagerated with the tightening of the line. I have never driven a racing car irl and played with diff settings so I cannot be totally sure, this is just my perception from my personal experiences. I HAVE driven road cars in oversteer situations, probably hundreds of times both low power and high power cars. When you are tracing a radius around a corner and you put a lot of power down hard, the front of the car might get more pointed towards the apex, but it won't actually tighten the radius unless you follow it up by lowering the speed. Eg. throttle on hard > back of car steps out and nose points toward inside of corner > less throttle > car goes towards inside of corner. But, if you just go > throttle hard > more throttle hard, the front of the car might pont towards the inside of the corner, but the car will go wider.

    Again, in rF2, you can make the car handle how you want on throttle by adjusting the diff. From my experience more diff lock makes the car trace a tighter line when on throttle, lessen the diff lock and it'll maintain the line/trace a wider line. This could be 100% correct, but I just can't draw upon personal experience with it. For me, more throttle (without subsequent lift off throttle) = wider line, not tighter line.
     
  19. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Well, yeah, on rotation I also have said that I feel that it can be exploited, I agree, but also depends on the car. It might also be because of differencials and no one is really talking about that aspect of the physics! One only has to look at AMS2 to see that diffs play a huge part on driving model and the game has been having a lot of detractors because of how they work and seem to be bugged in the Madness engine.

    But throttle application can really give an help in steering the car, so let's not go to the other extreme and create the opposite problem.
     
  20. Sim_Player

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    increasing diff preload (i assume preload because that is only adjustments in gt cars) It helps turn in and/or coasting oversteer
    but in some cases i experienced more throttle steering especially in high speed cornering....which didn't seem to realistic. My rough analysis is that increasing diff preload put slightly more load/stress on outside tyres on corner exit which might saturate its available grip quickly... i'm not sure if this real or not.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021

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