Suspension and Aero

[Slip_Angel]

How true is this
If i use stiffer springs/wheel rates the less damping i should use (lower damper values)

I believe that stiffer springs allows less body movement but at the same time if i keep the dampers stiff as well then, the mechanical grip will suffer.

Also Does softer springs generates more downforce ?
As it requires less force to compress a softer springs.
But on other hand softer springs will cause more movement hence underbody platform is not working effectively; This is where dampers play crucial part.
With softer springs and right amount of damping i can resists the body movement while still getting the benefit of softer springs as it generates more downforce.

This leads me to make a general rule->>
I only run stiff springs at front if there is a fast corner that could cause some heavy pitch movement
for ex in ACC the at paul richard, there is a fast right hander and if i run soft springs it may cause too much pitch hence instability.
so basically the higher the speed corners is the stiffer the front springs go and then to compensate for low speed understeer stiffen up the rear springs as well( also stiffer rear will help aero platform to not squat,pitch too much)

 

[mantasisg]

As far as I remember from one of recent Heusinkveld videos, dampers has influence for wheel rates.

As for springs being soft generating more load to the tires from downforce , I doubt that. I think it would be opposite maybe, or make no difference. I don't know. I think it would basically just damp the downforce, and just transmit it to tire with some delay. Perhaps soft springs would even store more of the energy than hard springs ? The best would be delivering downforce straight to the wheels skipping the springs entirely, like Jim Hall did with Chaparrals, or wouldn't it ?

 

[Slip_Angel]

As far as I remember from one of recent Heusinkveld videos, dampers has influence for wheel rates.

As for springs being soft generating more load to the tires from downforce , I doubt that. I think it would be opposite maybe, or make no difference. I don't know. I think it would basically just damp the downforce, and just transmit it to tire with some delay. Perhaps soft springs would even store more of the energy than hard springs ? The best would be delivering downforce straight to the wheels skipping the springs entirely, like Jim Hall did with Chaparrals, or wouldn't it ?

I'm pretty sure that softer springs will compress the springs more in straight line.
I have read that online,YT video
(I even asked ARIS ACC car dev and he agreed on that part)
What tough thing to know is how it works in cornering.
My idea is if i could adjust the damper to such a value that it slows down and resists car body roll but at the same time with softer springs put more downforce.

 

[Lazza]

@Slip_Angel no, you're getting entirely off track now, confusing damping for springs.

A soft spring will compress more with a given force (body roll or downforce) but if you need that to increase your front wing downforce or reach optimum diffuser height you just don't have your setup ride height correct.

Dynamics, being body movement or wheel movement, you want the damping somewhat close to ideal damping, and dampers will move proportionally to springs - softer springs, less damping.

*note: I've possibly misunderstood, as I'm assuming downforce means aero downforce, not load. Also I meant to reference "critical damping" when I said ideal...

 

[Slip_Angel]

@Slip_Angel no, you're getting entirely off track now, confusing damping for springs.

A soft spring will compress more with a given force (body roll or downforce) but if you need that to increase your front wing downforce or reach optimum diffuser height you just don't have your setup ride height correct.

Dynamics, being body movement or wheel movement, you want the damping somewhat close to ideal damping, and dampers will move proportionally to springs - softer springs, less damping.

*note: I've possibly misunderstood, as I'm assuming downforce means aero downforce, not load. Also I meant to reference "critical damping" when I said ideal...

No no i'm not confusing damper and springs, i have good idea what each of them do.

I want to use softer springs to go beyond given ride heights.With stiffer springs it will be much harder for aero to compress the car hence ride height.As you can only go so given setup restrictions.
My logical is simple, softer springs will compress more hence lower ride height which adds downforce. (obviously without bottoming out which i have yet to see in RF2)

What dampers got to do is prevent excess body movement as with softer springs body will move more.
So if i could reach a point where i'm damping the suspension movement (hence body movement) just enough without stiffening the springs i could get benefit of softer springs and flat aero platform thanks to dampers.

P.S ->> by softer springs i don't mean going full soft but softer than what seems to be good stiffness for given track.

 

[OdeFinn]

Dynamics, being body movement or wheel movement, you want the damping somewhat close to ideal damping, and dampers will move proportionally to springs - softer springs, less damping

Yes, but must remeber which way damping, softer spring might need more bump dampening and less expansion dampening.

 

[Lazza]

I want to use softer springs to go beyond given ride heights.With stiffer springs it will be much harder for aero to compress the car hence ride height.As you can only go so given setup restrictions.

Ok, my experience with setups for aero is based on modern era F1 mods - bottoming out is very much a thing, and very soft springs require a much higher setup ride height which robs front wing (and therefore rear wing, for balance) downforce at lower speeds.

So a little mod dependent, no doubt. You're right that there's generally room to try softer and harder options, for springs and for dampers. I felt your post was starting to make generalisations that were the opposite of what they should be.

 

[Slip_Angel]

Ok, my experience with setups for aero is based on modern era F1 mods - bottoming out is very much a thing, and very soft springs require a much higher setup ride height which robs front wing (and therefore rear wing, for balance) downforce at lower speeds.

So a little mod dependent, no doubt. You're right that there's generally room to try softer and harder options, for springs and for dampers. I felt your post was starting to make generalisations that were the opposite of what they should be.

My post was based on my current knowledge of gt cars underbody aero. Maybe it applies to F1 or maybe it does not. In my logic my post should be true for all flat underbody aero cars.

 

[Comante]

You do not sacrifice mechanical grip just to regain some grip with aero. You trade mechanical grip with other parameters that improve your lap time, like cornering speed, precision, weight transfer , roll inertia. Aero help you improve the balance of the car and the overall grip available.