Stuttering in Build 590: observations, a possible work-around and questions

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by The_Mark, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. The_Mark

    The_Mark Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    TL;DR update: the options "Shadows" and "Shadow Blur" seem to be the cause of the stuttering in my situation. I've set them to "Low" and "Optimal" respectively. Seeing great performance gains and stuttering has virtually gone during the couple of races I did after changing the Shadow options.

    =======================================================================

    I've been having some rather annoying stuttering issues during races lately (both offline and online). When this stuttering occurs, it doesn't necessarily mean my FPS goes down as well; it happens when my FPS is maxing out (capped at 60), but also when it's showing a dip (never going below ~45). I know it sounds weird, but that's the way it is. It almost looks like my FPS is between 3 and 5, but like I said, it never goes below ~45 whilst stuttering.

    The effect is noticeable while driving at specific points on different tracks, and most noticeably while driving through specific corners of a track. After some testing, I've come to the conclusion that the amount of visible vehicles is the only graphics/game options that has any influence on the stuttering being there or not.

    My specs are listed in my profile, but I'll write down the most important parts here:


    • OS: Windows 7, 64-bit
    • Motherboard: Gigabyte Z87X-D3H
    • CPU: Intel i5 4670k @ 3.4 GHz stock (3.8 Turbo Boost)
    • GPU: HD7970 3GB @ 1 GHz (stock)
    • RAM: 8 GB DDR3 @ 1333 Mhz (stock)
    • HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1 TB (Windows installation) + Seagate Barracuda 1.5 TB (rF2 installation) both @7200 rpm
    • Single Monitor: BenQ G2420HDB, 1920 x 1080
    • PC is running in the High Performance power plan of Windows

    Settings: literally everything maxed out, except shadows (medium). V-sync = on ("video" option), vertical FOV = 65, FPS capped at 60 through the .PLR file, HDR = on (automated), FXAA = on. All settings are done through rF2, I'm not using an AMD Catalyst Control Center profile.

    Things I've tried without result, before stumbling on the Visible Vehicles option:

    Setting v-sync at "software" and "GPU" mode.
    Completely turning off v-sync.
    Turning off FXAA.
    Lowering opponent detail.
    Lowering track detail.
    Lowering shadows.

    After trying the above without results, I came across the Visible Vehicles option on my to-do list. Before that, I had tried to set the "Extra Visible Vehicles"-line in the .PLR file to "15" (default was a staggering 105, btw), but to no avail.
    Anyway, the setting I had been using since the beginning for the amount of visible vehicles, was 25. I figured my PC was powerful enough to render them, but I guess I was wrong: when lowering this setting to 15 visible vehicles, the stuttering had gone! The magic number for my specific issue proved to be somewhere between 15 and 20, where 20+ means stuttering and 15 means no stuttering at all. Any number between 15 and 20 is a hit or miss situation; sometimes there's stuttering, sometimes not.

    I've tested it with two official ISI mods/tracks: Civic at Loch Drummond and Karts at Quebec (excellent mod btw, love it).
    Both of these tracks have one corner where the stuttering is most noticeable (read: obnoxiously annoying, to the point it impacts my steering-capabilities/reaction time, resulting in unnecessary spin-outs and crashing into other drivers involuntarily). Those corners/locations are marked with red in the pictures below:

    Loch Drummond/Civic:
    [​IMG]

    Quebec/Karts:
    [​IMG]

    When using 15 Visible Vehicles everything is fine, even in the red areas. Increasing this number means more stuttering. I've also checked the CPU-load in-game with Ctrl+C, and when I drive through the mentioned corners, the green bar shoots all the way to the right. I'm assuming it's under maximum load at that point. The green bar goes back to the left when I'm on non-stuttering sections of a track.

    Now, there are two reasons I made this thread; firstly I hope this will help others with tracking down any stuttering problems they have (I've seen more threads about this, but figured it was best to not hijack them). Secondly, I'm left with some questions myself after the findings above:

    1. Is the stuttering with 15+ Visible Vehicles something I have to just deal with? If so, is it down to my CPU, my GPU or something else like optimization?

    2. Is there anything I can do to get rid of the stuttering, whilst increasing the amount of visible vehicles (and thus the realism aspect of the game, imo) and keeping the high graphics settings?


    Apologies for the somewhat lengthy post, but if anyone has questions or suggestions, I'll be glad to hear them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2014
  2. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    13
    For the most part its guessing and exactly doing what you did, experimenting.

    Funnily enough I forgot about visible vehicles, with 590 I got the same stuttering and did a fresh install and started experimenting.
    Now I remember I too decreased visible vehicles, hadn't crossed my mind yet it could have been (one of) the issues.

    I'm not a tech guy so can't explain things properly but enough of a gamer/simmer to know that allot of games suffer in predictions and calculating them in advanced.
    For example back in the days with I dunno, one of the first simbin titles I think, there was this draw distance slider but what it seemed to do when the slider was minimized the sim had a harder task of keeping up. when the slider was max it did not have to calculate in advanced as it was told it could calculate in real time. (and possibly not having to take into account cars that where not even there)

    And I've seen people talk about, and am experiencing this myself as well, that some graphical details work better when maxed out.

    In that respect, not calculating what is not there, I would say decrease opponent details, increase visible vehicles, see what you get out of it.
    Or find another item that is hard on the system and turn it down so you can up vehicles.
    Shadows for example are now less of a 'problem' when you turn them down. increase in fps yet a smaller decrease in visible candy. (and remember 25+ cars is also 25+ shadows)

    I'm also hoping that with the amount of reports on stuttering ISI is dealing with it. 382 and 494 where pretty good in this department so fingers crossed they will find the issues.
    Because frankly speaking you should not have to dive into little details with your system, like I have to do with mine. the stuttering should not be there at all for you imo.
     
  3. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    13
    Oh and as for track-points where you suffer it more then elsewhere. it could just be a combination of it all. more 3D objects will decrease the framerate. When you don't suffer from issues it will go unnoticed but when you do suffer, these are the points where it will be most noticeable.
    Not necessarily a track issue, it just emphasises a problem.

    And mind you, it don't have to be big buildings, heavy 3D objects could be anything as far as I understand, from a tire stack build from a million polygons instead of just 3 (or whatever lol) to something under the surface the creator forgot to remove from earlier test versions (we've seen that allot in rf1)
     
  4. The_Mark

    The_Mark Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. Did a fresh install solve any problems you had?

    2. Well, there's basically no room for experimenting with maxing out, since I've got everything maxed out already except shadows. Have had shadows set on max in the past, but didn't notice any difference. Should probably set them back to high/max, just for the lulz.

    3. I've tested with decreasing opponent detail, weither it was on the lowest or highest settings, there was not a single impact (good nor bad) on performance.

    4. Well yeah, that's what I was hoping. I mean, I always thought my machine had to be able to handle pretty much anything at max. rFactor 2 has given me doubts, though. Hence this thread.

    That's a really good point actually. I forgot to mention that performance in the pits and on the start/finish straights (on any random track, custom- and ISI-made) is abbismal in most cases, even in single player with no AI. If you look at the pictures where I marked the bad performance-areas, you'll see that those are both corners where you turn towards the pit area, which is also relatively closeby. Might have got something to do with it as well.

    But that leads me to this question: is it normal that the pit-area and/or straight gives this kind of performance? To be frank, regarding today's standards the 3D buildings/props etc. are not really top of the line when it comes to graphical fidelity. It's not like I'm running this game with textures from Crysis 3 or something.

    Anyway, thanks for your post and hopefully someone from ISI can clarifiy some things for us.

    Groeten.:p
     
  5. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    13
    I reduced it to an acceptable level :)
    Certainly not at the levels of 494 which ran very smooth. to get the same performance I basically had to re-discover rf2 and am now running with very different settings. (no caps for example, no vsync, no AA)


    The experimenting is seeing what you get when you turn things down, and up again, in different combo's. assuming the system can cope and not looking into all settings is probably not good enough because the stuttering originates from somewhere.
    For example Texture Detail high + shadows medium could just do the trick for you but you need to find it out.





    Nederlander? :)

    I have no idea. Not even sure if you can compare with Crysis because that's hard on the system in terms of graphics, I understand rf2 is hard on the system mainly due to accurate lightning, dynamics, physics and a bunch of other stuff that needs to be done to make the sim accurate.
    Never played Crysis but in terms of accuracy I suspect it wont matter if you shoot someone right in the face or a meter away from his face, he will die. in rf2 it has to be as close as possible and that requires something else.

    So in that respect, when already struggling (or bugged) and stuttering, those track areas will come to surface where as 'normally' you would not even notice the difference. Its just another hit on the system, enough to increase the problem.
     
  6. The_Mark

    The_Mark Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nederlander, ja. :)

    Anyway, I think/hope I've made some kind of a breakthrough.

    After my previous post, since you mentioned the shadows, I turned down Shadows to "Low" and Shadow Blur to "Optimal" with keeping Visible Vehicles at 15. I went online and did a Karts race at Quebec on a full server (30 players).To my surprise I had no stuttering at all! It would make sense, since it's less vehicles = less shadows, like you mentioned.

    I didn't have time to do another race or do some more testing, but could it be...?
     
  7. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,430
    Likes Received:
    957
    I can confirm no smoke / dust in replays

    (ok when on track)
     
  8. The_Mark

    The_Mark Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    ??
     
  9. stonec

    stonec Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,096
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    Very insightful posts. I experience the same stuttering issue with Karts & Quebec, first time I ever had it. I lowered Visible vehicles from 15 to 8 and, suddenly, a lot less if any stuttering! I have a bit less powerful PC (i5-750, GTX 660) than thread starter, so it makes sense that I need a lower number.

    I then tried playing with shadow settings and I also get quite good results when turning the shadows off. Anyway, the bottom line is that I get no stuttering in private practise, only when other karts are on track. This leads me to believe that the change made to undercar shadows in build 494 and 590 is the cause of this stuttering. It would be nice to have some dev comment on that, because it's the only significant change in opponent rendering that we have had over the last few months.
     
  10. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    13
    Oh you're right Stonec, introducing undercars shadows/stuttering reports. the plot thickens!

    We should spread the word and see what people find.
     
  11. The_Mark

    The_Mark Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just did another 30 player race on Quebec, but on the short layout this time (basically still the same track). No stuttering whatsoever.

    These are my current settings:

    [​IMG]

    Performance is excellent, FPS is not even dropping in the slightest. I think I've got a good base to do some more testing, like upping the amount of visible vehicles and playing around with the Shadow (Blur) options.
     
  12. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    13
    With shadows on Low I get nothing, looks silly so back to medium. blur is on fast (2nd to off)

    Those reflections are killers as well Mark and what's the point of having raindrops and motion?

    Also for this build you want to turn skins OFF, its buggy and can increase latency on servers.
     
  13. The_Mark

    The_Mark Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reflections, raindrops and wind/crowd motion are purely for graphical fidelity. Nothing more, nothing less. If I would be struggling for FPS, I'd turn them off. But since my FPS is fine, I leave them on.:)

    I've also never exprienced big latency issues (other than lag spikes on full servers right after a race has started), but I'll turn off the downloading of custom skins to see if that makes any difference.



    I've also been doing some testing (not a lot though, been racing with the Karts most of the time). I noticed that when on Loch Drummond with the Civic-addon, the stuttering is still there on the part of the track I described in my first post. Even with Shadows on Low, Shadow Blur on optimal and Visible Vehicles at 15. This was offline with 15 AI.
     
  14. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    13
    I've posted the undercar/vehicles thing in the 590 thread but sadly no responses yet, would love to see peeps try it and see if its just us or in general a good workaround or even something ISI could look into.
     
  15. Rinussie

    Rinussie Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    9
    This is not a First person shooter so on my system I resolved it by lowering the refresh rate off the game to 50hz

    enabled v-sinc in the nvidea driver
    enabled gpu sync in the configure sim menu in the launcher

    I run a triple screen setup at 5935-1080 with a steady 50fps all the time

    Ingame I maxed out everything except shadow blur because off the known shadow bug with triples.
    AF and AA are set in the nvidea controlpanel at 16x and 16x CSAA. Every other Nvidea setting is set to get max quality.

    I run rFactor2 at the highest setting possible with:

    No stutters
    No tearing
    No shearing
    And a flawless steady 50fps all the time, online and offline and with 29 ai's

    On my system I have no more input-lag then with vsinc/ gpusinc disabled and 120hz.
    Without any sync the max fps on many tracks and mods is around 65fps with ups and downs and lots of stutter tearing and shearing.

    Just try it you'll never know :D

    OS: Windows 7 64x
    Motherboard: MSI z87-G45 Gaming
    CPU: i7 4770K @4000
    RAM: Crucial 16GB 1600 8-8-8-24
    Graphics: EVGA GTX780Ti oc with gelid icy vision rev 2 cooler
    Sound: Onboard and Asus Xonar DGX to drive the buttkicker
    Storage: 1x Msata samsung SSD 840 evo 120G + 1x SSD crucial M4 128gb
    Screen: triple screen @ 5935-1080 50/120hz Samsung SA700
    Internet UPC 120down/10up
    DIY motion Simulator My motion simulator
     
  16. The_Mark

    The_Mark Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ehm, try what exactly? Setting the refresh rate to 50 hz, or what? I don't really understand your post, sorry.
     
  17. Rinussie

    Rinussie Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    9
    Topic name is: Stuttering in Build 590: observations, a possible work-around and questions

    So this is a possible work around that works for me and my teammates.

    The main setting is to lower the in-game refresh rate to 50hz in the config menu in the rf2 launcher,

    enabled gpu sync in the config menu in the rf2 launcher,
    enabled v-sinc in the nvidea driver or amd/ati driver.

    After that make what ever setting your pc is capable off and no need to set the visible opponents to 15.


    In the team I drive with (RARE Endurance Team) there are three drivers with triple screen setup and motion simulators, the above setting solved stutters tearing and shearing for the three off us.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
  18. The_Mark

    The_Mark Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ah, right. It's much more clear now, and I'll try it out. Thanks. :)
     
  19. Flex

    Flex Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    Have you tried to change the value of this line this way in the plr:

    Render Once Per VSync = "3" / / Attempts to render ounce per vsync; 1 = use timer, no wait; 2 = use vblank, no wait; 3 = use vblank, wait

    After changing the frames per second are blocked at 60, with the same quality gain by activating the vertical sync, without any stutters ... AND WITH NO INPUT LAG!
     

Share This Page