Stockcars 2018 steering delay

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dosequis56, Feb 4, 2023.

  1. dosequis56

    dosequis56 Registered

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    I have been racing rfactor with F1 cars using my Fanatec Clubsport steering wheel and pedals. Obviously these cars are fast and you have to be quick with everything you do. I can run 1/2 decent laps. I have always liked stock cars and wanted to do some tests with the only real stock cars available, stockcars 2018. My question is about the steering input. I find everything I do causes a late reaction from the car; almost like driving a boat. I know these things aren't F1 cars but I just can't believe that they are floating like this. I tried a few other stock car mods (like the classic stock cars) and they seem a little better, where I can actually run a normal lap up against the wall at Darlington. With stockcars 2018 I can drift up toward the wall and adjust the steering angle to stay off it; it just keeps going.

    I have tried many steering wheel settings (wheel lock, feedback, deadzone, sensitivity etc.) Nothing changes this boat feel.

    So is this all setup? How can a car be setup to float?

    Thanks for input.
     
  2. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Soft springs & dampers can cause the car to react slowly. The scientific term is WALLOW. ;) Remember, oval setups are almost always heavily biased to the inside direction Tire Camber is often like this \ \ instead of / \ like you would see on a typical road course style setup. This pulls the car naturally down the banking. Everything about a Stockcar is heavier and therefore requires much more energy to counteract the inertia. Perhaps one of the Stockcar leagues might share some setups but it really just may be teaching your hands to react sooner but with less input.
     
  3. dosequis56

    dosequis56 Registered

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    I drove rfactor and NR2003 for many years and never experienced this level of WALLOW before; especially at relatively low speed. More seen at places like Talladega with the turbulence etc back in the pack where the car will definitely steer like a boat.
     
  4. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    One other question, are you using the Release Candidate(v1132) or NONE.(v1131)? There are apparently some issues with the new steering system. Also, you might want to try your F1 cars again just to verify it is the stock car mod and not something more systemic from the core of rF2.
    perhaps @mschreiner or @machine can help out.
     
  5. dosequis56

    dosequis56 Registered

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    Not the release candidate. And I am going back and forth between F1 and stock cars. F1 cars drive as expected although I do think rfactor has made the curbs harder to drive over. I just tried the 2019 cars that someone had made and with the default setup from those it feels a lot better. So I am sure you are right about setup.
     
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  6. Joel.Brown

    Joel.Brown Registered

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    There could be several things causing this. I'm going to make some assumptions that your wheel settings are ideal for stock cars and the setup you're using is in the ballpark. Both of these things can make a significant difference but let's assume they're ok. The next thing to listen for is the sounds the tires are making. Are they squealing when you're in the corner ? If they are, then this means you're pushing the tires past their limits, and it will cause the car to push or have a delayed reaction until the tire has re-gained traction. Sometimes it's hard to hear this squealing sound depending on your sound system. If you're not hearing any tire squealing, then push it really hard just to make sure you can hear tire squeal.

    Let's say you hear them squealing on entry. The next thing is to loosen the car up and fix corner entry. You could reduce wedge/cross weight or, and this is what I would recommend, lower the front ride heights and/or raise the rear ride height. Try dropping the front ride heights to the minimum and raise the rear ride heights up to about 4 inches. This will give you more downforce and loosen the car on entry and give more drive off.

    What other tracks have you tried besides Darlington ? Is it having the same problem on other tracks ? Is it about the same at other tracks ? Darlington is a difficult track to drive and also one of the most difficult to build a setup for because it is a difficult track.

    Try these couple things and see if it helps.

    Remember the movie Days Of Thunder ? When Harry says:
    Now, when you were racing Indy cars out west, the tires were twice as wide and the car weighed half as much. Now your car weighs twice as much and the tires are half as wide and you're burning them up, all right.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2023
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  7. dosequis56

    dosequis56 Registered

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    Thanks Joel. So I do hear squealing in the tires but not related to the late steering reaction. This issue literally occurs down the straight away (and yes I know I have to turn the wheel to the right in a stock car setup for oval racing). But even when I come off the corner and turn right, it is so late the car goes left first, then too far right, and ... you get the idea.

    Like I said previously, I ran laps in a 2019 mod that I believe is based on 2018 stock cars and it is much better. So pretty sure you guys are all right about it simply being a ridiculous setup default in 2018. I do see very high right front tire pressure, very soft springs and so on. Obviously it also could be that this mod has physics modifications and I can check that out in the HDV file etc. I only tried some other tracks with 2019 mod and Dover in particular seems to really drive well; the car arcs down into the corner and hugs the bottom well (wants to oversteer down onto the apron but since steering reaction is good in this setup/mod, the usual wheel jockeying keeps pinning on the line.

    Wheel setup is so-so. Much tweaking to do. Fanatec firmware update was just installed which changed everything anyway, so adjusting it now both for F1 and Stock cars (FF became so strong it takes two hands to turn and almost tipping the desk over). But always good to have more FF than you need since you can always dial it down.

    FYI: everyone on this forum is awesome with good constructive feedback and always willing to help. Such a nice change from other online things. Thanks guys. I hope I add value with modding posts on what I learn about AIW, etc.
     
  8. dosequis56

    dosequis56 Registered

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  9. Joel.Brown

    Joel.Brown Registered

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    Didn't know the problem was in the straights. This is not how the SC2018 mod should drive, we wouldn't have released it doing what you're describing. So something else is causing the issue. Let me check with the other developer of the mod and see what we can come up with.

    You're always welcome to join us at www.StockCarSimRacing.com. This is the league where we develop and test SC2018 and SC2018X mods. It may be easier if you joined us for some practices and races so we could spend more time with you diagnosing this.
     
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  10. dosequis56

    dosequis56 Registered

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    Thanks. I will start by making the setup of 2018 look like the 2019 setup and take a ride around DOVER where the car feels great. I will update.
     
  11. Joel.Brown

    Joel.Brown Registered

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    I didn't think about this but:

    What Darlington track are you using ? We didn't have a Darlington track when we released this mod ? Are you using the Darlington from Machine's Workshop ? That's an RF1 conversion with some really nasty bumps on corner exit.

    It also may be loading the wrong tires for Darlington since we didn't have a Darlington track to test with. This also means the default setup is going to be a generic setup which could be really out to lunch. One other thing, if the mod doesn't know the track, which it may not for the Darlington you're using, it will load the road course tires which don't work very well for oval tracks.

    We have a scratch-built, laser scanned Darlington at www.StockCarSimRacing.com that we are testing. It's not released to the public yet but you're more than welcome to come over and test it with us. SC2018 loads the correct tires and setup for that track.
     
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  12. dosequis56

    dosequis56 Registered

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    Yes on the Darlington track. By the way, the 2019 mod is definitely based on 2015 cars because I can set the low tire pressure on right front. And maybe that is why I like it :). I will definitely try your Darlington track. Thanks.
     
  13. Joel.Brown

    Joel.Brown Registered

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    Yeah the 2015 tires, especially when you lower the air pressure, will stick like glue and everything handles great then. Just not very realistic.
     
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