Stock Car Tire Wear

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PearceYaussy, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    I find that the tire wear for the new stock cars is extremely excessive. I can't even drive 10 laps at 100% without completely destroying the right side tires. I literally get 100% wear after after about 8-10 laps at the speed I find comfortable. And I'm not smoking the tires and driving like a mad man, just driving at what I feel is a comfortable race pace. I find myself having to drive like a grandma just so my tires will last for a short 25 lap race. Does anyone else share this opinion, or am I the only one?
     
  2. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    It's exactly the same as doing qualifying pace on any road course. I can push the car hard, and use up the tyres and set a couple or maybe a few fast laps, but I'm going above a "normal" temp range for the tyres and getting increased wear because of that.
    Same here on ovals, you can push the stockcar hard and get fast times, but you start cooking the tyres and as they cook, you slide more, you cook more, you slide more, as you continue to try and keep the same laptimes going. Just a continuous loop

    I follow MotoGP closest of all racing series, and you see that the tyres can run a full race distance of say 28 laps. Those exact same tyres then give 1 or 2 fast qualifying laps and are then gone and used up.

    Tyre management IS a big part of racing, this kind of thing is completely normal. You have to force yourself to slow down (or speed up) suitable to whatever race you are doing, not to mention taking into account the car, setup, conditions, etc.
    I highly recommend putting a full tank in and then do one stint, keep an eye on your wear and just make them last the tank distance. Good practice
     
  3. Squeeekmo

    Squeeekmo Registered

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    Managing tyres by going slower than you're capable of is one of the great things about sim racing. I love getting in the rhythm of race pace as opposed to trying to outlap myself on every lap.
     
  4. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    I guess so. It just seems like they are able to drive somewhat on the limit for a whole stint in real life, and you can't go anywhere near the limit here or the tires won't last. Maybe I'm wrong.
     
  5. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    I'd say you are just turning the fronts too hard, post a vid up with tyre temps visible.
    I have managed to do some good big stints, and its just a matter of setup and feeling how the tyres are changing. If you cook a corner a bit, or the temps are creeping, maybe just ease a teeny fraction for the next couple laps, let things stabilise again.
     
  6. Fabio Pittol

    Fabio Pittol Registered

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    May I suggest you something? Next week, during the Sprint Cup race at Dover, access their website and follow the Live Leaderboard. Watch the lap times/speeds, and you'll see that they drop significantly.

    Actually, you doesn't really need even to do that. Just take a look at what happens to the cars that won't pit during a YF, and try to restart with tires 10/20 laps old.
     
  7. jpalesi

    jpalesi Registered

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    Or try to check the gap between 2 cars when one pits 2 or 3 laps later. Or even, look at the ridiculous speed difference between a car a few laps down with new tires, and the leader with old tires.
     
  8. mrmat01

    mrmat01 Registered

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    Your not the only mate im frying my front right doesn't matter what my set up is. I've thrown that many set ups at it & its doing my head in I've spent all most all day trying to stop my front right tyre from frying. Im not driving it that hard im 1.5sec off the pace at Indy with ai on 104% maybe some one here could throw us a set up or 2 to try please
     
  9. Chefmark

    Chefmark Registered

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  10. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Lap times drop steadily and further than you realize when you watch a race on TV. As others suggested, take a look at the realtime laptimes on nascar.com.

    Occasionally you'll watch a race where a driver will absolutely burn up his tires in 10 laps, passing everybody to take the lead, but they can't hold the lead and end up falling back.

    The part I find funny is that you were complaining the tires had entirely too much grip not too long ago :p
     
  11. jimcarrel

    jimcarrel Registered

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    On tracks less than 1.5 miles, it's not uncommon to lose 3 to 4 seconds in top lap speed after 20 - 30 laps on same set of tires.

    Do setups that let you go slow into the corner and fast off. Being able to do that allows you to maintain the RF tire, and will help you outbrake the other car when his RF is worse than yours, giving you an easier pass.
     
  12. mschreiner

    mschreiner Registered

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    It is called tire management:)
     
  13. jimcarrel

    jimcarrel Registered

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    Wrong steering lock can be a detriment to maintaining tires. If you set the lock for faster steering it allows you to turn more than you need, ending up in being able to "grind the rind". You literally grind away your tires when turning. If you watch a stock car race, you will notice them having a hard time turning around after some spins. It's not because stockers have cheap, bad steering... it's so they can maintain tires.
     
  14. Fabio Pittol

    Fabio Pittol Registered

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    What's more interesting, for me, is that tire misusage is more common in simracing that it should. A lot of people beat up the tires, mainly because up until now, it came only with rewards. That means, better lap times, no tire degradation. Which always bugged be, 'cause it's pretty unrealistic. Just watch any real racing and you'll notice that.

    And for me, that's has already been a huge plus for rFactor2, with any car, but now, with the Stock Cars it'll become a lot more clearer for a lot more people, that the "turn the wheel and the it scrub, scrub, scrub..." it's not a worthy practice.
     
  15. Damian Baldi

    Damian Baldi Registered

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    it will be interesting in the future, to be able to save or store your used tyres to be used later. This way, you could assign an amount of set tyres per weekend or race.

    It would be a new point of view for the weekend, for Nascar and Endurance.
     
  16. Allyc4t

    Allyc4t Registered

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    I've driven in countless series, in multiple types of car over my sim racing "career" and the majority of drivers pay no consideration to tyre wear and only build setups (and drive) for ultimate speed. People are only now being caught out by it in rF2. I would watch how some people would drive and it was unrealistic and arguably game breaking, but they went around the track faster than most.. only for their tyres to go off 5+ laps before everyone else's.
     
  17. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    More than probably any other car we've released, we're extremely confident in the stock cars and their tires from a data collection and usage standpoint. I feel some people are encountering a car that forces them to manage tires more than any previous car has, any previous sim has, etc.
    Shouldn't be too much of a surprise really. Maybe it's about time the sim community realized how good real drivers really are, even the ones who just turn left. :)
     
  18. Golanv

    Golanv Registered

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    You have to do bloody tyre management in Gran Turismo 5 if you want to be competitive in online racing, this stuff shouldn't be news to anyone with a sim racing "career".
     
  19. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    I was just talking to few other forum members on facebook and steam chat talking how different, much refined these tyres feel. At one point I called them cpm 2.0. Why? It's just the way I seem to get them to work exactly as I want them. Just to use new Vette and GTR as an example. They are way better than their previous versions but somehow they still feel like there's some work needed to be done. For example I can't really understand why for example rears are so planted when it comes to longitudinal forces. Even Vette with 2009 engine which has buttload of torque, as soon you start moving at more than crawling speed it is rather difficult to get a wheelspin unless you are driving like a tool. Resulting in both GTR and Vette having rears that are sometimes 20-30 C cooler than fronts. I tried making setups that would "punish" them a lot more to bring some heat into them but didn't really help, the only way to actually get some PROPER heat into them was violent weaving on straightaways or drifting. I believe there's room for improvement there.

    I'm just in love in this car's dynamics on track.

    Anyway back to the Stock car feeling a bit more "complete" in that regard is that there's more direct feeling of my inputs translating into believable reaction. I know that Stock car is a different construction, less downforce, different construction of the tyres, engine that is way beyond of what even GTR's engine is capable of. However when I first tested Edgar at Silverstone and started really sinking my teeth into every aspect of driving it on road course, making setup, reading telemetry. It felt beyond what any other car in rF2 is capable of reproducing. Maybe Mr. Borda had lots of time, trial and error and data to make these tyres so good and different to what any other tyre in rF2 is capable of. I know that they might not be that different to any other cpm tyre out there but maybe, just maybe it is a case of them being polished, refined so well that they seem like cpm 2.0 while other cars with cpm are sth like first iteration of them that after maybe another go with them, more polish and time put into them they become as good as Stock car tyres? I strongly hope so. While every other cpm uprgaded car delivered was a big step forward, stock cars are the long jump. The more time I spend with them the more they make me go: "Ok. That deserves a wow".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2015
  20. Matt Sentell

    Matt Sentell Member

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    The figures you're quoting are indeed crazy (100% wear after 10 laps) but they're nothing like what I experience. In fact that's so insane that I wonder if you're on accelerated tire wear, because I would struggle to achieve that on 1x wear. I'm not sure what I would have to do really. In fact I was testing this stuff yesterday with a really balanced setup at Brookdale, one that got just a bit more right rear than right front temperature. I was going wide open through 1 and 2 so yeah, grip felt a bit much there, but after 4 or 5 laps of this the tires would be exceeding 310F/154C in those turns, and if I kept trying to do it they went even higher, until it just didn't work anymore. Even after about 10 laps of this, however, the right sides still had around 80% wear remaining on them.

    I had a teammate running with me who was driving more sanely for race pace and after those 10 laps or so I dropped behind him to see how we matched up. On fresh tires, driving properly, I was about a half second a lap quicker than him. But now after I had cooked the tires off, even if I started to take care of them, I could barely keep up.

    I think a lot of people tend to focus too much attention on the wear indicators and not nearly enough on the temps. rF2's thermal modeling is insanely good, the way the temps are simulated independently in several parts of the tire and then conduct around the tire. This is why you can go out and cook off a couple of really fast laps but not keep doing it for an entire stint. When starting out, the surface temps go high in the corner as they should, but since the air and carcass temps are still low (because they change much more slowly), the tires cool off a lot on the straights. Then you can hit the next turn really hard and the surface temps still don't go out of the ideal range. But after just 3 or 4 laps of doing this the internal and carcass temps have increased so much that the surface doesn't cool off enough on the straights, so you enter the turn with higher surface temps, corner hard, and the surface keeps getting hotter and hotter. And pretty soon they're just too hot to work well anymore.

    But like I said, even when doing this test I didn't see excessive wear figures. I think we did about 20 laps, the first part with me going all out and the second with me just running normal race pace. After 20 laps I still had about 68% wear remaining. It seems to be just as I would expect.
     

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