Sorry S397 but max is a goose

Sim_Player said:
I kinda agree with that but i much prefer whiny over radio than kamikaze driving.
So much of max's incidents are avoidable if only he was just bit more patient.
like at silverstone he could have played little bit safely let lewis pass as there is longest straight of silverstone right after the maggots section....that would have been much easier,safer and better option to regain position. But instead he got in very lethal crash...he would have been much better off even if he finished behind lewis rather than crashing.losing crucial points.
see he just can't understand basic logic, he wants to win the fight right there right now.
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Lewis had the advantage at Silverstone on the straights, that is why he was desperate to pass as soon as possible & Max was desperate to defend. Lewis attacked first short straight(Brooklands), then the old pit straight. The upcoming Becketts/Maggots/Copse complex would have favored Max and he might have pulled away enough to keep Lewis at bay. Max would NOT be able to pass Lewis on the straight without DRS help, which had not been enabled yet. Each driver knew where the other was strong so they both attempted to attack or defend to set up the other driver for whatever advantage came next in the lap. Max was faster over-all, but not fast enough to catch Lewis on the Hangar straight. When you know you face a faster car in the most obvious passing areas, the last thing you do is concede a corner to the car that was behind.(I know they reached the corner even) Max could have backed off, so could Lewis. If this had occurred near the end of the season, Lewis might have waited as his car was certainly superior in the top end. But given it was still early enough in the season, each driver had to protect whatever advantage they had. Thus saying Max & Max alone could have backed out, when he was in the lead entering the corner, is one sided.
 
This has been a very interesting championship and have a new winner, what are good news.
But...
Nowadays if a driver makes an error, doesn't pay for it (in many cases)
If they go out of track, they return without consecuences.
If they overtake using the exterior of the track, they return the position (if the stewards wan't :rolleyes:) and there is not a real sanction, because they return where they were without consecuences for his bad action.
If they drive too hard, they are penalised with 5 seconds. Where are Drive Through and Stop and Go?
Why the stewards need 5 laps to tell a driver to return the position (in case they do)? This is stupid and crazy
The FIA has had a big influence in this championship and this is bad. They have changed their criteria race by race (or in the same race :eek:). Then the drivers don't know what they can or can't do.
Taking in account that the sanctions are weak and are a lottery, the best bet is to do the bad action.
We need consistency in the steward decisions. Why do they change them every few races? Use the same stewards for all the championship and you'll have less contradictory decissions.

In summary we have had an incredible championship, but it left a bad taste in the mouth, what's a pitty.
 
@lagg I try not to get too invested, but to a fair extent I agree: by the last race I pretty much didn't care either way. I suppose it's a fine balance between entertaining racing (itself difficult; some people seem to want all tracks to be the same) and very borderline moves that aren't black and white and then end up causing controversy and potential perceived contradictions (depending on viewpoint).

But hey - makes for a memorable season doesn't it?


Now, track limits, runoffs... there's a very long discussion to be had there, also without (I guess) a perfect solution.
 
Lazza said:
@laggNow, track limits, runoffs... there's a very long discussion to be had there, also without (I guess) a perfect solution.
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I agree, there is no a perfect solution, but at least, they should use the same criteria the whole season.
We can take a took at what Alonso did in COTA, related with the runoffs, how he "played" with the rules and highlighted the inconsistency of the FIA decisions. It was ridicolous.
 
Michael Massi is a very good race director in my opinion as he is willing to make tough decisions on the fly. Full respect to a fellow Aussie at the top of his game at the pinaccle of motorsport.[/QUOTE said:
very good hahaha you are horny, the MA-FíA has been manipulating for many years and this one has come, and it has continued to do the same, this is how formula 1 goes ... good race director says hahahaha.
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vava74 said:
lol... people find the lamest excuses to justify their opinions...
Max ALWAYS complains that the Stewards and Race Director are "out to get him", that everyone is against him, etc... Always.
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He forgets how to turn left with a Mercedes next to him and sends them into the next post code and whines they're against him.

Stop running people off the track and cutting corners and you won't get penalised. And they say Lewis cries victim all the time.
 
Navigator said:
Haven't you heard? Mercedes is not going to fight it anymore.
(Hush, inside info!)
(Actually true)
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A cynic might think that once the race ended F1 would have dropped out of the headlines until next season if there wasn't an ongoing controversy. If so Liberty Media would be encouraging Mercedes to protest the decision up to the highest level. The legal costs would be a drop in the ocean compared to the advertising revenue...
 
I do not defend Verstappen, nor do I defend Hamilton, I do say that the regulations are to be used for all the same and always in the same conditions, ... if the race has to end behind the safety car so be it, but not that MA-FÍA MANIPULATE THE REGULATION ACCORDING TO YOUR INTEREST ----
I do not care who the winner is, but that the regulations always apply the same
 
lagg said:
I agree but they could do this in a different way. The lapped cars could pass once for the pit lane in any of the laps behind Safety Car, for example.
The way that they did that was "ugly"
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How would that work?

The idea of the SC is to slow and bunch the field to allow work to be done (which can include the SC driving more slowly, something Hamilton perhaps forgot - though in reality many radio messages are more about lobbying for favourable actions).

You can't let any cars go until that work is done, for the safety of workers and of drivers (remember Bianchi).

You can't just have the lapped cars drop behind (and give them a lap), because they will end up behind their direct opponents having physically done one less lap and will have a fuel advantage.


Let the race end under SC, get criticised for it (especially if the regulations give discretion)

Restart the race with lapped cars in place, get criticised for it.

Suspend the race with discretion, everyone restarts on soft tyres, and get criticised for favouring Hamilton by not allowing the SC period to potentially end early enough for Verstappen to use his tyre advantage to win the race (despite lapped cars in the way).

You can't win, really.
 
Hi Lazza.
If in one of the laps behind SC, the lapped cars go thru the pit lane and the rest of the cars remain on track, they could stop the lapped cars in the exit of the pit lane. Then the rest of the cars overtake all the lapped cars and the lapped cars can go to the back of the cue of cars.
This wouldn't be dangerous.
 
If you want a simple solution, keep the lapped cars in formation. It used to be that way for over a decade and I don't remember too many drivers complaining about that. I suppose it's another entertainment or American influence thing to go through all this procedure just to have artificially restored the order. I don't see it worth doing especially with the trade-off of always losing an extra lap or two from the race.
 
lagg said:
Hi Lazza.
If in one of the laps behind SC, the lapped cars go thru the pit lane and the rest of the cars remain on track, they could stop the lapped cars in the exit of the pit lane. Then the rest of the cars overtake all the lapped cars and the lapped cars can go to the back of the cue of cars.
This wouldn't be dangerous.
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Yes, but the recent idea is to give them a lap back, rather than cement them even further down. And as above, doing it this way can give them an unfair advantage over their rivals.

This of course also reflects a recent ideal of having more cars competing for points rather than the mass lappage we used to get, but then we also still have (had) huge aero influence, even wider cars, and frozen engine regs meaning the field hasn't closed in this current era like it might have previously, then along comes DRS to help passing which really just means the top teams always end up at the front even on a bad day. But I digress.
 
There is not a perfect solution for all the situations, but for sure that the current one can be improved easily.
The classic solution that stonec has said, would be another example.

We will see if new regulations balance a bit the grid and improve the competition
 
@Lazza
Let the race end under SC, get criticised for it (aka "Let the race end under the rules")
A tiny fraction of the criticism they’ve got (from everyone except from Verstappen fans) for giving the championship to Verstappen!

(especially if the regulations give discretion)
That discretion should only be used when there is an overwhelming need for it, not just "Hey! Let’s spice things up a bit!"
 
Seven Smiles said:
@Lazza
Let the race end under SC, get criticised for it (aka "Let the race end under the rules")
A tiny fraction of the criticism they’ve got (from everyone except from Verstappen fans) for giving the championship to Verstappen!

(especially if the regulations give discretion)
That discretion should only be used when there is an overwhelming need for it, not just "Hey! Let’s spice things up a bit!"
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As has already been said, if Hamilton had pitted and Verstappen stayed out, the situation would have been exactly reversed.

Discretion is exactly that - it's not up to you to decide if it's warranted. It's the race director's discretion.
 
Lazza said:
As has already been said, if Hamilton had pitted and Verstappen stayed out, the situation would have been exactly reversed.

Discretion is exactly that - it's not up to you to decide if it's warranted. It's the race director's discretion.
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You do not know that, it is more I doubt that they would have finished the race in the same way
 
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