Some trick to braking in RF2?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rapala, Mar 7, 2016.

  1. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    No (about the cheat post), more probably, no matter how you tweak a T300 pedal set, they are too cheap to deliver the exact inputs of the driver. It's sufficient that when you hit the brake there is a signal spike to have a loss of grip that can affect your performance.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2016
  2. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    There are many ways how to trail brake, wether you turn in a little sooner but get more weight on the outter front therefore you can brake a little longer, or you are trying to take line that is as long as possible before apex so you have more "braking space" so you can start braking later and also obviously very important factor is your pedal work, when you start applying your brakes, it should happen at the same time as you go off the throttle. there should be no coasting time what so ever (it depends on the car a bit but if you are in any firm susp, high downforce car this applies) Ideally the overlap is that your pedal application is always 100%, meaning when you are on throttle 100%, brakes are 0%, when you start to go of throttle say you are 50%, brakes are already 50%, simply no coasting at all. This is actually very common mistake of many drivers, they dont overlap pedals good enough, loosing atleast a tenth of a second every brake zone. So its worth focusing just on that, studying your own replay pedal overlay, thats all not even mentioning blending it with your steering wheel inputs, so not saying that you dont trail brake right, but Trail braking is a skill to improve just as much as everything else. Braking is one of the most important ways how to improve laptimes
     
  3. Squeeekmo

    Squeeekmo Registered

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    I would have thought that braking 50% while throttle 50% is wasting both braking performance and power. My thought would be that as throttle input reaches zero then braking input should increase from zero. Vise versa on accelerating. Happy to be convinced otherwise, as I'm not an expert.
     
  4. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    Why I drive Historic, brake modulation does not need to be so precise and you can vary it a fair bit.
    Following cars into turns you can come off the gas earlier coast longer and brake easy.

    Modern high-load braking , too hard for me. lol ;)
     
  5. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    And you wear it off. Frentzen had that issue, though from resting his foot on the brake.
     
  6. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    This transition is very quick, less than half a second, so if you wait for the throttle to come all the way to 0% and than start applying brakes, the time between you started releaseing the throttle to the time when you are at 0% is wasted with coasting

    On telemetry it should look something like this:
    -Coming from throttle and applying brakes hard, soon you arrive to turn in so you start releasing brake slowly as you add steering input, at the apex there -can- be very short coast and at the end slowly start adding throttle to nicely track out.

    Now this stuff changes with corner shape obviously, this is just "typical" example, not for corners like T18 on Bahrain, also this is for a modern racy car. Classical cars or soft cars will require to apply your breaks slower, so the car has some time to swing forward to get the weight on the front, if you apply brakes too fast on soft cars you will lock up the fronts. So its very situational
     
  7. Squeeekmo

    Squeeekmo Registered

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    Thanks for the explanation Mikee, I will try this technique. It requires left footed braking so that will take some learning. See if I can find some extra tenths.
     
  8. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    Well that is of course meant for left foot braking yes, if you are driving manual you gonna need your left for clutch and you need to heel and toe, there is going to be a relatively lot of coasting time on these cars, manual gearboxes might be more fun, but they will always be slower

    That might be a reason why are others faster too, because they dont necessarly drive realistically and they use paddles on H-shift pattern cars, depending on the mod, if they use auto-blip and auto-lift aids, they might or might not be getting some balast penalty, but depending on the mod it will or will not slow them down enough to compensate enough
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2016
  9. boblevieux

    boblevieux Registered

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    You should also Check if the front aren't locking too early.
    I think the best F:R ratio is when the car losing the rear while lifting the brakes mid-corner, without throttle.
     
  10. Rapala

    Rapala Registered

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    Ah great, you're here, nice win man you are seriously fast! Am I right in thinking your brake point for the hairpin (1/3rd of the way through the track) is just before the 300 board? That's what it looked like to me when I was watching you in practise. As I said in the OP, I had to brake just before the 400.
     
  11. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    Yeah for sure M, with F3 power and coast is everything.

    Unfortunately I do not have a shifter
    I turn off the aids in both player and mp files and disable auto clutch.
    On my fastest laps I am still letting the car breath and I never flat change like.
    I change at 9,000 rpm all gears all tracks, rarely I go above 9,200.

    I actually blip loud and long when I training people even faster mates.
    If I lap behind I will brake earlier and blip loud and they hear it and start braking sooner and do not slide into the kitty litter at Parabolica.

    That is why people that trash them to 10,000rpm every gear go slower, no matter what shifting method they use. ;)
     
  12. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    There are some great technique suggestions in this thread.
    The only ones I can think to add are set up wise;

    Brake balance; what is perfect on your outlap will change with warm tyres. Bias can move fwds to deal with greater weight shift fwds as rubber and brakes reach optimum temps.so set balance on warm tyres.
    Brake force; You should be able to use 100% pedal only in a straight line at top speed, but as you slow they should lock up with 100% and require regressive braking as the aero load drops off. Adjust pressure till this is the case.
    Brake cooling; get your temps to optimum.
    Camber; less camber means better braking performance. (but there is a trade off).
    Greater engine braking (lower number in that option) will slow you more. You have to get your downshift right.
    More aero makes it more stable under brakes.
    Slightly stiff front springs can help too.

    Experiment with how much or how little throttle works best after turn-in.

    BTW for the post that asked with a ?; trail braking is not engine braking. Its a controlled regressive braking with some wheel input to load the fronts while still allowing them to turn to get a strong turn-in.
     
  13. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    rF1-based games had a large benefit, in any car, from a very quick slam on the brakes, followed by a very quick lift, and then gentler braking with a progressive depression.
     
  14. rogue22

    rogue22 Registered

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    I used 100% brake force in setup, all 3 of pedals are set to 50% sensitivity, rather than 100%.

    The Nissan sucks under braking. You really have to be straight, the roll bars are too weak to trail brake. My GTO stops better than that that thing.

    It can be done but you have to be really smooth, no sudden change in attitude.
     
  15. Rapala

    Rapala Registered

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    One of the 2:11 guys in my league kindly posted their Motec so I took the plunge to try what seemed at first a rather intimidating program. I was pleasantly surprised with how simple it is to figure out and absolutely stunned at it's usefulness!

    It's rather amusing that here I am trying to figure out how to brake later, but Motec showed me that the 2:11 guy was actually braking earlier than me! Then he was able to get on a throttle waaay earlier than me too and that's where he was gaining a ton of time. So massive lesson learned in how to drive this car (and most RF2 cars I would guess). I guess I got the impression of late braking because I was experiencing some lag while watching him in practise, so there's another lesson learned, don't try copy brake points while spectating!

    So even though I was coming at it from the wrong angle, this thread has been hugely useful for the discovery of Motec as well as all the helpful tips in here. Cheers guys! :)
     
  16. cosimo

    cosimo Registered

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    The DeltaBest plugin helps a lot too with realizing that slow-in fast-out really works.

    Up to a point. Aliens can throw an over steering car into a corner with crazy speed...
     
  17. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    Glad you managed to figure it out. There is no one advice in this, its all so situational that a good driver must apply often a completelly differend technique in every corner of the track, sometimes even in seemingly identical corners. Things that at first seem insignificant can very much change the fastest line, a small bump, a patch of grippier tarmac, slight camber, shape of the kerb. There are so many. Thats one of the many things that makes racing so bloody addictive
     
  18. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Brilliant, great use of a tool and getting results :)
     
  19. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    Very happy for you, that it all worked out :)

    Aaaand you're welcome ;)

     

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