So hows AC for you?

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These threads should be in a poll format with comments closed for non english speakers.
So, how is AC to you?
1- Didn´t buy and i won´t
2- Didn´t buy but i will
3- Better than pcars
4- Feels like Grand Turismo for PC
5- Already better than rf2
6- Too early in development stage, but looks promising
7- Too early in development stage, but feels simcade biased
 
Yo....I'm anti harder=realistic, but I also want a sim to have a good range of car behaviour, and when people like me call for less grip, it's usually related to the rear, especially in powerful RWD cars, however, if you consider something like GSC 2013 Camaro, it's MONUMENTALLY EASY for any proper sim driver who understands braking points, smooth and modulated application of both brakes and throttle, of course this racing technique ensures that weight transfer doesn't spin you off the track, as does throttle control.

Now, when I say easy, that's only to a point, and then millimeters start to matter, and until you get your eye in, you won't be going much faster, but regardless, anyone who thinks Simbin 2005-2009, GSC 2011/12/13, Netkar is hard to drive has a console mentality and they want to take away the need to modulate brake and throttle and also minimize the penalty of weight transfer.

I want and will endorse a proper sim with a credible driving model, not some dumbed down permanent TC on to save the console crowd.
Even Makcorp have succumbed to the console crowd with their latest batch of rf2 supaglue cars.
 
I would love to see any of the ones saying things that racing cars are not dificult and that everyone can drive them picking a F1 car....much probably they couldnt reach the pit lane exit.
Racing cars are not 1.4 80cv cars you drive everyday. Ok, you can drive them.....but drive them its not equal to race them. Or do you really think you can smash the throtle on a 600cv car in 1st gear and "here we go"? Thats what this people call "driving on ice".....They want a simulator where they can pick a car wich make 0kmh-160kmh-0kmh in 5 seconds and where they can race on it since minute 1......thats not simulation, thats pure arcade.

AC is far from RF2 and from what ive seen so far it will be far forever....AC=too much Hype.
 
Domi said:
I think you are wrong here. I don't see Forza/GT (I used to play Forza 3 online) players using such cars because they can "powerslide" or "do scandinavian flicks" (in fact the average player don't even know what's this). It's just that supersport cars are more popular than racing cars, that's all.
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The overall speeds are less in these cars. It provides for closer racing, if a mistake is made you still can see and catch the other guy, who's maybe another 1-2s ahead. With a fully fledged racing car there is great time to be lost when not pushing at or near the limit, the different aspects of driving are far more precise and you must drive within tight parameters.


Edit: That said, I am not saying AC is perfect. It clearly can go with improvements on a few areas where the "feeling" is involved. About the MP4-12C I've read about how this is a tough car to drive but I've also seen videos of it being far more controllable - though I cannot speak for the potential differences on tires and aids being enabled on real life/game laps I've seen.
 
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Valter Cardoso said:
I would love to see any of the ones saying things that racing cars are not dificult and that everyone can drive them picking a F1 car....much probably they couldnt reach the pit lane exit.
Racing cars are not 1.4 80cv cars you drive everyday. Ok, you can drive them.....but drive them its not equal to race them. Or do you really think you can smash the throtle on a 600cv car in 1st gear and "here we go"? Thats what this people call "driving on ice".....They want a simulator where they can pick a car wich make 0kmh-160kmh-0kmh in 5 seconds and where they can race on it since minute 1......thats not simulation, thats pure arcade.

AC is far from RF2 and from what ive seen so far it will be far forever....AC=too much Hype.
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Stop :) This are two complete different things. I agree with you for the F1 car or any other high tech open wheel or sport car.
But friends of me drive sport cars like Audi RS4 or Merzedes E AMG and from time to time I can drive with this cars. Both of the above named cars have arround or more then 480 PS and a V8 Engine one of them is additionel tuned.
For both car's I can say you can sit in push down the accelaration pedal to the down plate and say here we go :D
Of course if you disable all the small electronic helpers it is not a good idea to do the same ;)
I've no clue how it drives a MP4 12c but (to come back to topic) if I compare my expirience with the RS4 or the AMG then the AC MP4 feels right.
If I disable the TC and set ABS to the lowest level it feels again very comparable to me.
Fazit: Super Sport Cars like this you can use for example
to drive shopping with your wife
or
you can race with it on a track day or some where else and push them like hell.

Kunos approach to catch both with the MP4 12c feels very promising to me.
 
AC is not even going on my game drive it looks like another one of them games that are good for a few days fun its not a tool for engineering tbh.
 
I believe that this thread is just getting exaggerated. Some people here don't even wait to comment from build to build. They just want to convince people that the game is a trash from the first build. I wrote that i'm not a supporter of hard = realistic (which is the tendency of modern video gamers and games) but neither we should be silly to believe that a 400+ hp is as smooth when accelerating as a kia. If you ask me if i think that there is a bit too much grip in AC i would say yes, but i would also add that it is just a matter of code, so a single update with the purpose of change/fix the tire model might change everything from day to night.

Second most people (including me) complains about cars tendency to understeer, but we are missing to define which type of understeer. Considering that we are talking mostly about ROAD CARS with their DEFAULT SETUP and setup changes that are really limited, i would say that we might not be too far from real life. Do you really think that in real life a ROAD ferrari (which i drove) sold to many normal people will really go into lift oversteer easily? I don't think so (perhaps most people qualify themselves as fast pilots that can push that car close to the limits in 20 min of gaming, so they conclude anybody else were not driving close to the limit that why they didn’t have lift oversteer), remember that lift oversteer can be reduced drastically by a proper overall setup (will not be the best solution for a race but will be the best solution for road cars that in the end of the day must be safe since they are made to be used in public roads and not tracks). So returning on the topic types of understeer, I agree that the game allow too much throttle smash so less power oversteer than I would expect from it, but the mid corner understeer is not that far from real life. If you analyze most real life incidents with supercars you will find that they are basically due to power oversteer or high amount of understeer (most with front impact instead of tail or lateral impact). Of course most will come out saying "but they weren’t pushing at the limit" (indirectly saying I CAN DO IT ALL THE TIME ALTOUGH I NEVER DROVE A CAR LIKE THAT IN REAL LIFE), basically there is always a lame excuse….

Another ludicrous tendency is to get a video and compare with it, for example get a video of FERNANDO ALONSO (REPEAT FERNANDO ALONSO) driving the same Ferrari (REPEAT FERRARI) and say ….see he is having power oversteer, lift oversteer so if he has then we should get the same here ………………. WRONGGGGGG!!!! You will never know what is the setup that he is using (include the tire). Do you really think that it is that hard for the Ferrari’s mechanics to change the setup of that car for an uncommon setup (not used for retail cars) that will be used by ALONSO???? C’mon guys don’t be so silly, we should stop to think that just because we are using a simulator we can put ourselves at the same level of real pilots (specially when you have so many UNKNOWN variables). Just watch the Le mans 24 hour Ferrari and the road Ferrari, they are totally different and surely the balance will be, where the first one is made to race and we all know that a bit of oversteer means faster lap, moreover weight transfer helps to follow faster laps, the second one is made to be enjoyed by normal people where we all that understeer means safety.

In conclusion, AC is not perfect but it is in the right direction, it is not even out yet but rather accessible to all while still in development so there is a enough room for an update that might drastically change everything in positive or negative. IT IS NOT A TRASH. To be fair, rFactor 2 is not out yet too, it has two years of in public development but we still have some ludicrous stuffs that comes not even from day one rFactor 2 but from day once rFactor 1. By the way remember that actual tire engine is not complete and the contact patch is not perfect in fact there is too much distance between inner and outer edge temperature, so when they solve it (who knows when) the grip should improve, what would you do? Come here to complain that the game is not realistic anymore because the grip improved (like if in real life grip cannot be improved….so silly), or you will come out saying well actually a bit of grip in addition is more realistic (the classic flipflop)

UPDATE

just to be fair i'm neither a rF2 fanboy nor AC nor iRacing. I'm just a race fanboy and i'm glad there is three competitor following (apparently) 3 different path so i can see which will get closer to real life when they all will be complete. Even rose has thorns at the start.
 
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williang83 said:
C’mon guys don’t be so silly, we should stop to think that just because we are using a simulator we can put ourselves at the same level of real pilots
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And why not? On the simulators we have unlimited practise time without having to worry about our lifes or about crashing the car. After all driving a car is just using a steering wheel and some pedals.

A very different thing would be if we talk about how many simracers would be able to replicate Alonso's skills in a REAL F1 car. But on a virtual one, why not?
 
I feel like Jeremy, but it is early in development, so there is hope. :)

 
Domi said:
And why not? On the simulators we have unlimited practise time without having to worry about our lifes or about crashing the car. After all driving a car is just using a steering wheel and some pedals.

A very different thing would be if we talk about how many simracers would be able to replicate Alonso's skills in a REAL F1 car. But on a virtual one, why not?
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Because you simply imply that the simulator is perfect. Since it is not perfect we don't have 100% real behave (in positive or in negative) to be honest i would say not even 60%. There is so many stuff that is ignored from ANY simulator specially when it comes to grip and overall dynamic variables (most are a bunch of simplified calculus to avoid system overload).
The difficulty is not in excessive oversteer (typical hard = realistic), but in the fact that many variables changes fast (and you cannot be silly to believe that any commercial software can replicate those properly) and the driver must be able to deal with it.
Remember that not even a Formula 1 team can make simulators that get really close to reality (almost 100%), what makes you think that a software house can do that with 1/100000 of the budget? So if your simulator does not reflect 100% real life what makes you think that you are at the same level/condition? By the way even in a pseudo situation where we get 99% close, that 1% might be a huge change.
 
williang83 said:
Because you simply imply that the simulator is perfect. Since it is not perfect we don't have 100% real behave (in positive or in negative) to be honest i would say not even 60%. There is so many stuff that is ignored from ANY simulator specially when it comes to grip and overall dynamic variables (most are a bunch of simplified calculus to avoid system overload).
The difficulty is not in excessive oversteer (typical hard = realistic), but in the fact that many variables changes fast (and you cannot be silly to believe that any commercial software can replicate those properly) and the driver must be able to deal with it.
Remember that not even a Formula 1 team can make simulator that get really close to reality (almost 100%), what makes you think that a software house can do that with 1/100000 of the budget?
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Look @this. They are also succesfull in real racing :)
http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/academy/2013/
and this is not rF2 or AC ^-^
Maybe I should try it :D lol
 
alpha-bravo said:
Look @this. They are also succesfull in real racing :)
http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/academy/2013/
and this is not rF2 or AC ^-^
Maybe I should try it :D lol
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Do you really think that they just gave the car to them and said ...drive fast! Even Dempsey became a pilot, actually there is a lot of actors that became pilots and some with good result.
I'm not saying that driving is a misterious dark magic but rather that WE CANNOT COMPARE VIDEO OF PEOPLE DRIVING IN REAL LIFE WITH PEOPLE DRIVING IN A COMMERCIAL SIMULATOR. Anyone can become a fast pilot IN REAL LIFE with the proper training (what happen to all those actors or these gran turismo accademy drivers).
There is a lot of traning/courses around the world, opened to everyone a bit expensive but opended to everyone. Most of professional driver that i know did courses in their life because just like a normal school they teach you things that would take weeks to learn by yourself with some $$$ in damages.

i repeat my point is not about some sort of black magic but IT IS SILLY TO GET A VIDEO OF PROFESSIONAL PILOTS IN REAL LIFE AND COMPARE IT WITH A COMMERCIAL SIMULATOR THAT DOES NOT OFFER A LOT OF DEGREE IN FIDELITY, MOREOVER IF YOU CANNOT COMPARE THOSE SETUPS/CONDITION BECAUSE THEY ARE UNKNOWN (SUPPOSING A WORLD THAT THE COMMERCIAL CAN REPLICATE THE BEHAVE OF ALL COMPONENTS WITH 100% OF FIDELITY)
 
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williang83 said:
Because you simply imply that the simulator is perfect. Since it is not perfect we don't have 100% real behave (in positive or in negative) to be honest i would say not even 60%. There is so many stuff that is ignored from ANY simulator specially when it comes to grip and overall dynamic variables (most are a bunch of simplified calculus to avoid system overload).
The difficulty is not in excessive oversteer (typical hard = realistic), but in the fact that many variables changes fast (and you cannot be silly to believe that any commercial software can replicate those properly) and the driver must be able to deal with it.
Remember that not even a Formula 1 team can make simulators that get really close to reality (almost 100%), what makes you think that a software house can do that with 1/100000 of the budget? So if your simulator does not reflect 100% real life what makes you think that you are at the same level/condition? By the way even in a pseudo situation where we get 99% close, that 1% might be a huge change.
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Oh, I totally agree with you here. I thought you meant that simracers can't drive a simulated car like them because lack of skill/etc.
 
a comparison between (imho) the best cars in the game (along with the KTM) currently, both with street tires, F458 vs MP4-12C at Mugello:

 
alpha-bravo said:
Stop :) This are two complete different things. I agree with you for the F1 car or any other high tech open wheel or sport car.
But friends of me drive sport cars like Audi RS4 or Merzedes E AMG and from time to time I can drive with this cars. Both of the above named cars have arround or more then 480 PS and a V8 Engine one of them is additionel tuned.
For both car's I can say you can sit in push down the accelaration pedal to the down plate and say here we go :D
Of course if you disable all the small electronic helpers it is not a good idea to do the same ;)
I've no clue how it drives a MP4 12c but (to come back to topic) if I compare my expirience with the RS4 or the AMG then the AC MP4 feels right.
If I disable the TC and set ABS to the lowest level it feels again very comparable to me.
Fazit: Super Sport Cars like this you can use for example
to drive shopping with your wife
or
you can race with it on a track day or some where else and push them like hell.

Kunos approach to catch both with the MP4 12c feels very promising to me.
Click to expand...

Even a road car at the limits isn't easy to drive. Most people THINK they are driving at the limit in their road cars when in reality they are probably at about 6/10 (and no I am not exaggerating). My daily driver only has 215HP/218Ft-Lbs, with an LSD and with TC disabled (I permanently disabled TS and ABS) and I can sling the rear all over the place whenever I wish. I don't think people realize how much of a safety net an open dif creates. Probably 90% of the cars on the road have an open dif. With all the gay electronics these days, LSDs are being replaced by electronics which isn't the same thing. Applying brake force to a spinning wheel to force the power to the other wheel isn't a good solution. Anyways, today's cars suck. All these aids, no more LSDs, no more manual transmissions, laggy DBW, ect, ect. I am getting off topic.
 
chappielike2009 said:
AC is not even going on my game drive it looks like another one of them games that are good for a few days fun its not a tool for engineering tbh.
Click to expand...

You want to engineer something on the basis of a game?

Even if it would be professional software... the last completely computer designed car was 2 Seconds off of the rest of the field. Stuff to think about.
 
alpha-bravo said:
Look @this. They are also succesfull in real racing :)
http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/academy/2013/
and this is not rF2 or AC ^-^
Maybe I should try it :D lol
Click to expand...

Most of them already had lots of real life racing experiance. Mostly Karts but some in cars. And don't believe one second that these guys got their sim skills from GT5. Bryan for example raced in an rF1 league (still does) a few days a week. He spent minimal time in GT5. You will not hear him say this in interviews though. He no doubt collects checks from Sony to not talk about other sims. Bryan is also a 5 time SCCA Solo2 champ. 4 of them came before he won GTA.

GTA is just a hype machine. GT5 isn't realistic in any shape or form.

Here is a video of Bryan doing his thing. This is where he got his skills from:


Solo2 is great for learning car control. You have tons of run off area and hitting cones very rarely damages the car. So you have no fear pushing the car way past it's limits. Solo2 reminds me a lot of sim racing in that regard. No fear to test the limits. You drive much more conservatively on a race track where leaving the racing surface has risks.
 
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Jerry Luis said:
These threads should be in a poll format with comments closed for non english speakers.
So, how is AC to you?
1- Didn´t buy and i won´t
2- Didn´t buy but i will
3- Better than pcars
4- Feels like Grand Turismo for PC
5- Already better than rf2
6- Too early in development stage, but looks promising
7- Too early in development stage, but feels simcade biased
Click to expand...

3,4,6, and more often than not but not all the time and seeming to get slightly better 7.
 
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